|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Check this page. I refer particularly to this sentence: Quote:
Worse yet, the thirty-second nature of a small fish's memory guarantees that they can never, ever get used to it.
I submit that the use of the hyphen increases ambiguity rather than decreasing it. A hyphen would normally be used to indicate that this was an ordinal number rather than a measure of time, but the context seems to suggest that it is the measure of time that is meant.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 456
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 456 |
Yes, it seems contradictory in characterizing fish memory as minimal while ascribing at least 32 'natures' [facets?] to it. 
ÅΓª╥┐↕§
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230 |
Quote:
Check this page. I refer particularly to this sentence:
Quote:
Worse yet, the thirty-second nature of a small fish's memory guarantees that they can never, ever get used to it.
I submit that the use of the hyphen increases ambiguity rather than decreasing it. A hyphen would normally be used to indicate that this was an ordinal number rather than a measure of time, but the context seems to suggest that it is the measure of time that is meant.
Whoops! Despite possibly being responsible for pointing you to that link initially, I missed that. Now I clearly see the ambiguity you describe. Sometimes, ignorance really is bliss.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
yup. should be dehyphened.
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557 |
It's second nature to me now.... (^_^)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Musta been a hell of a duel, what with "Thirty Seconds over Tokyo."
I read that sentence about the thirty-second nature and didn't have (nor do I see) a problem with it myself, though I understand what the argument is. What, though, do you say to "Worse yet, the thirty-second duration of a small fish's memory guarantees that they can never, ever get used to it."
Had the writer used anything other than twenty, thirty, forty, etc., you'd probably not have noticed the (to me very slight) ambiguity. I suggest that had he said 30-second instead of thirty-second you would not have blinked an eye.
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Quote:
Musta been a hell of a duel, what with "Thirty Seconds over Tokyo."
I read that sentence about the thirty-second nature and didn't have (nor do I see) a problem with it myself, though I understand what the argument is. What, though, do you say to "Worse yet, the thirty-second duration of a small fish's memory guarantees that they can never, ever get used to it."
Had the writer used anything other than twenty, thirty, forty, etc., you'd probably not have noticed the (to me very slight) ambiguity. I suggest that had he said 30-second instead of thirty-second you would not have blinked an eye.
Whatever he might have said the hyphen is at best totally unnecessary.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230 |
Last edited by sjmaxq; 01/12/2007 4:40 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,773 |
As a former prescriptivist I definitively would have used the hyphen, though I might have written it, "...the nature of a small fish's thirty-second memory ...
Oops, I see that TEd had beaten me to it
Last edited by dalehileman; 01/12/2007 3:34 PM.
dalehileman
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
... is a surprise every time.
~ Ani DiFranco
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Quote:
Whatever he might have said the hyphen is at best totally unnecessary.
Prescriptivist.
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
Prescriptivist.
It's always amused me that a prescriptivist can only correct a "mistake' if he [sic] has understood the original utterance (or text), so, in fact, no ambiguity exists.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Quote:
Check this page. I refer particularly to this sentence:
Quote:
Worse yet, the thirty-second nature of a small fish's memory guarantees that they can never, ever get used to it.
I submit that the use of the hyphen increases ambiguity rather than decreasing it. A hyphen would normally be used to indicate that this was an ordinal number rather than a measure of time, but the context seems to suggest that it is the measure of time that is meant.
Dear Mister Faldage,
We all know the nature of a sixty-minute-man but will you please explain the meaning of "thirty second lover" as used in this song. Would hyphenating help?
THIRTY SECOND LOVER
Well I'm a thirty second lover
umm pop pa pi
Love has made me cry
umm pop pa pi
I'm a thirty second lover
Love has made me cry, yeah
I'm a thirty second love has made me cry
Can't get you out of my mind.
Yeah!
I gonna tell everybody
umm pop pa pi
What you been doin' to me
I going to tell everybody
Umm pop pa pi
What you've been doin' to me, yeah!
I'm gonna tell everybody what you've been doin' to me
Can't get you outta my mind.
____________________________________ 5 Royales 1956
John Dos Passos [my hero] believed that hyphenated words were ugly and superfluous and so instead he would simply create compound words for the nonce.
Goodgodyall, that man could write. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
he was either premature, or very late, one.
- joe (waiting with baited breath) friday
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529 |
Quote:
he was either premature, or very late, one.
- joe (waiting with baited breath) friday
Oh yeah, now I get it. Its sorta like re-playing the thirty-seconth game of Hogwash on Worthless Word of the Day.
Or...
Like playing a truncated game of Hogwash on Worthless Word that only lasts thirty seconds.
Only...
You don't know which. 
SEE WORTHLESS WORD FOR THE DAY
Last edited by themilum; 01/13/2007 8:38 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
Quote:
Quote:
he was either premature, or very late, one.
- joe (waiting with baited breath) friday
Oh yeah, now I get it. Its sorta like re-playing the thirty-seconth game of Hogwash on Worthless Word of the Day.
Or...
Like playing a truncated game of Hogwash on Worthless Word that only lasts thirty seconds.
Only...
You don't know which.
SEE WORTHLESS WORD FOR THE DAY
{sproing}
did you mean to link to this truncated game of hogwash? hogwash, for which I borrowed a handful of *short* def'ns?
*note link to original, non-truncated** game
**note proper use of hyphenation
sandbox: nontruncated {blegh}
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 124
member
|
|
member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 124 |
I for one LOVE my hyphens - some would say too much.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 293
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 293 |
Quote:
I for one LOVE my hyphens - some would say too much.
I have a similar (and equally passionate) affinity (I have been told, repeatedly) for parenthesis. 
"I am certain there is too much certainty in the world" -Michael Crichton
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Quote:
I have a similar (and equally passionate) affinity (I have been told, repeatedly) for parenthesis.
Just the one? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Reminds me of the old backronym of the computer language LISP (LISt Processing): Lots of Insignificant Single Parentheses. Sample LISP program: Code:
(defun factorial (n &optional (acc 1))
(if (<= n 1)
acc
(factorial (- n 1) (* acc n))))
This is a relatively mild example.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 293
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 293 |
I learned that as Lost of Insidious and Silly Parenthesis.
Yes, that example is tame. It is possible to write an entire functional program on one line with LISP.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
It's possible to write one-line programs in many programming languages, (not Fortran or Python, though). I never had much trouble balancing parentheses is LISP, as most editors (e.g., vi, emacs) have this functionality built in. LISP is one of the two oldest programming languages still in use. It is both elegant and strong. It has had features for decades that other languages are just now reinventing. You might check out what a LISP aficionado has to say about LISP.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 293
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 293 |
Yes, I am old enough to remember when Lisp was prominent.
And, as I try to master it, Python has finally overcome the problem of balancing parenthesis (or is that parentheses?). A plague that led me to develop the habit of typing the closing paren as soon as I type the opening paren. I have applied the same rule to HTML (type the closing tag immediately and then fill in the content) for it's entire lifespan.
|
|
|
|
|
