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Is there a word in English which is untranslatable?
The Welsh word hiraeth, the Portuguese word saudade, the Spanish word duende, the German word weltschmerz, Han in Chinese, and others, are considered untranslatable into another language. We can give an approximate translation. "Wistfulness"; "Nostalgia"; "Passion"; "Worldweariness"; "Bitterness". But to properly understand the elusive meanings of these words—understand them in the way that they are used by the native speakers of the language they belong to— you probably have to have lived in the culture in which they are used because the meanings are a unique part of the cultural psyche.
I'd really like to know if we have any words like this in English. But I can't think of a single candidate. Maybe it's impossible to identify these words in your own language.
Any ideas?
Last edited by Hydra; 12/10/2006 1:47 PM.
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Eh? 
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Quote:
Eh?
Let me give you another example.
C. S. Lewis defined the German word Sehnsucht rather succintly as "an inconsolable longing for one knows not what."
Germans tend to be somewhat more expansive.
Consider the following. It is excerpted from the speech When Sehnsucht Leads You Up the Garden Path given by Federal Councillor Christoph Blocher at the Ninth International Woodcarvers Symposium in Brienz on the theme of Sehnsucht , 10 July 2006.
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Sehnsucht is one of those German words that it is almost impossible to translate adequately. Along with Weltschmerz (world weariness or taedium vitae), the stage director and author Georg Tabori called Sehnsucht one of those quasi-mystical terms in German for which there is no satisfactory corresponding term in another language. [...]
It is already a tough proposition for us German speakers to describe sehnsucht. Tender longing goes hand in hand with the painful knowledge that the thing longed for will never quite be attained. Indeed, you even get the feeling that the granting of an eagerly awaited wish could immediately bring about the destruction of the desired object.
The English writer Oscar Wilde described the dilemma aptly when he said: "In this world there are only two tragedies: one is not getting what you want, the other is getting it."
The word sehnsucht itself expresses this conflict.
Despite these rational objections, once people have been gripped by sehnsucht they are unable to shake off their longing. It is this close relationship (encapsulated in one word) between ardent longing or yearning (das Sehnen) and addiction (die Sucht) that lurks behind each longing waiting to turn the feeling into a destructive, self-defeating force.
If it is true that the word sehnsucht is untranslatable—and indeed most languages make do with the word Verlangen (désir, desire or longing) or Nostalgie (nostalgie, nostalgia)—this in no way means that the feeling of sehnsucht is a state of mind peculiar to German speakers.
The feeling of sehnsucht is universal. And it is in the non-verbal means of expression—in painting, music and the visual arts—that this universal nature can be seen to best advantage.
What word in the English language could possibly require such a metaphysical, circuitous, expository definition?
Last edited by Hydra; 12/11/2006 1:16 PM.
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Pooh-Bah
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Hi Hydra: If you are asking whether we have any untranslatable words like that, I would guess we have hundreds if not tens of thousands. Trouble is, because the typical English-speaking clod (me)wouldn't recognize them as unique, you'd have to assemble a cadre of language experts and translators to identify them
dalehileman
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OK, okay.
Cool.
(Both words being borrowed into myriad languages from English because of their "untranslatability", which, by the way, I don't really believe in.)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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the facile answer: much specialty jargon and Netspeak (internetese)
-ron o.
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old hand
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You possibly know the famous "traduttore traditore" (a translator is a traitor). So the number of untranslatable words (from zero to infinity) depends on how much treason you are ready to accept..
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Quote:
You possibly know the famous "traduttore traditore" (a translator is a traitor). So the number of untranslatable words (from zero to infinity) depends on how much treason you are ready to accept..
Just when I think that wsieber has said the most insightful thing possible he keeps on talking. What a guy! 
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AnnaS. posted one time about foreign translaters having difficulty with George Bush's "Bring it on".
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I think I have a candidate. In my experience, Japanese and Korean people cannot be made to understand the meaning of "kitsch" or "tacky". Japanese pop culture is overwhelmingly cutesy-cutesy. Even the offical promotional emblem of the Japan Self-Defense Forces is comprised of a couple of doe-eyed, infantile munchkins. But then, this is only a case of English-Japanese untranslatability. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuteness_in_Japan
Last edited by Hydra; 12/11/2006 1:20 PM.
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Sorry if this sounds like its making fun of any groups of people. But I wanted to mention the word 'ugg' and 'how' as used in early western tv shows and movies.
These words were used as exclamations by tv indians (native Americans) and far from being simple, I find them to have within them a world of beautiful meaning.
'How' with the right hand upraised palm forward is at once an openhearted gesture of greeting, peace and friendly inquiry.
And 'ugg' (sp?) spoken around the fire is a perfect exclamation of agreement or resolution at an experiential and pre-verbal level.
I offer them as examples of a kind of communication tending toward peace and congeniality, words that cannot be translated perhaps, but that need no translation.
These two words should take up residence with other favorites such as 'aloha', 'ciao', and 'dobje' (Polish)
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The answer, though not so obvious, is that there is no answer. For any given English word, there may be an exact translation in some other language, but unless one knows ALL of the other languages, one cannot ascertain whether such an exact translation exists.
This is NOT the same as asking whether any word in another language has an exact translation into English. A person with deep knowledge of German, French, Swahili, Tlingit, or any other language and who also has a good knowledge of English can find a word for which there is no English equivalent.
Someone here will have a name for this fallacious logic thing. I don't.
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Oh. Sorry. DH already answered the question.
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Quote:
Is there a word in English which is untranslatable?
The Welsh word hiraeth, the Portuguese word saudade, the Spanish word duende, the German word weltschmerz, Han in Chinese, and others, are considered untranslatable into another language. We can give an approximate translation. "Wistfulness"; "Nostalgia"; "Passion"; "Worldweariness"; "Bitterness". But to properly understand the elusive meanings of these words—understand them in the way that they are used by the native speakers of the language they belong to— you probably have to have lived in the culture in which they are used because the meanings are a unique part of the cultural psyche.
I'd really like to know if we have any words like this in English. But I can't think of a single candidate. Maybe it's impossible to identify these words in your own language.
Any ideas?
Of course all words can be translated by lots and lots of other words in almost any human language, so obviously what Hydra is really asking is are there any "concepts" that are so culturely intrenched by standard English that they can't be translated into another language.
The classic answer is "yes". The language of the Hopi indians had their own construction of "time" that defied our attempts to integrate
our concept of time into their particular scheme of things.
To the Hopis the abstraction "time" was intertwined in the vernacular with physical distance within an omnipresent "now", and the crazy but neato Hopi language proscribed any relationship of "cause" with "effect".*
* Buy me this book and I will point out the verse and chapter to which I refer... 
http://www.amazon.com/Hopi-Time-Linguistic-Linguistics-Monographs/dp/9027933499
Last edited by themilum; 12/12/2006 2:58 AM.
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we interweave time and place too in english (or rather in western/european culture)
my daughter lives 20 minutes away (a more realist expression than 5 miles.
5 miles on a country road with little traffic could be 20 minutes too, (if the road is narrow and winding)
5 miles could be 30 or more minutes awawy in a small town, riddled with stops signs.
20 minutes is a much better description of the distance than 5 miles ever could be--
and in my lifetime, the world has shrunk..
at a child, on 4 engine prop, ireland was a full 12 hours away. (the flight originated in NY, but stopped at boston, before heading out to shannon, where you had to change planes to get to dublin airport.
now, with non stop jets direct from JFK airport, dublin is just 6 or so hours away.. (it's half the distance it used to be!)
We might drive miles, but we often measure distance in time.
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In Texas, distance is measured in six-packs.
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Quote:
Quote:
Eh?
Let me give you another example.
I think you've just proven my point. My point is that "eh?" is not translatable. Well, it is, but only with one of the long, rambling explanations given by several others here for other words.
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There is an ever-evolving list of adjectives, denoting a superlative quality (cool, awesome, etc.), that are imported into other languages over the globe. What is being imported, besides the literal word, is an aura of pop culture of the American variety, that defies translation.
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enthusiast
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I am not sure, but the longest English word with no repeating characters is UNCOPYRIGHTABLE !!
Ironic in itself, eh?
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What is being imported, besides the literal word, is an aura of pop culture of the American variety, that defies translation.
That's an interesting point, which hasn't been brought up before in this discussion. I wouldn't say it "defies" translation, though. It makes translation seem pointless. This applies to many IT terms, too. The French habe been fighting an uphill battle there for years.
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Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
I think I have a candidate.
In my experience, Japanese and Korean people cannot be made to understand the meaning of "kitsch" or "tacky". Japanese pop culture is overwhelmingly cutesy-cutesy. Even the offical promotional emblem of the Japan Self-Defense Forces is comprised of a couple of doe-eyed, infantile munchkins.
But then, this is only a case of English-Japanese untranslatability.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuteness_in_Japan
Kitsch is a German word so I don't think that counts as an untranslatable English word.
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Quote:
Is there a word in English which is untranslatable?
The Welsh word hiraeth, the Portuguese word saudade, the Spanish word duende, the German word weltschmerz, Han in Chinese, and others, are considered untranslatable into another language. We can give an approximate translation. "Wistfulness"; "Nostalgia"; "Passion"; "Worldweariness"; "Bitterness".
Doesn't the English word 'spleen' cover the meaning of the above words? It's a word Baudelaire borrows as the title for one of his poems.
And I know at least one word I would not be really able to translate into my language: 'wayfarer'. I admit that it is a poetic word, but we have nothing that evoques the same sentiment.
Last edited by BranShea; 12/13/2006 9:41 PM.
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Maybe the concepts of "cultural displacement" and "the cultural interspace" are unique to post-colonial, English-speaking cultures of fading European descent. Maybe not.
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Quote:
Maybe the concepts of "cultural displacement" and "the cultural interspace" are unique to post-colonial, English-speaking cultures of fading European descent. Maybe not.
I dunno, Hydra, but I think that maybe the paragraph above is intranslatable in all of the so-called foreign languages.
It is to me in English.
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What is the difference between foreign languages and so-called foreign languages!?
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The phrase "foreign language" assumes an anglo-centric bias that is anathema to everything Milo stands for.
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The words a and the are untranslatable into languages like Latin, Sanskrit, Mandarin Chinese, or Russian.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Mandarin Chinese, or Russian These people don't say the equivalent of, for ex., "I'm going to the store to look for a good pair of shoes"?
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The phrase "foreign language" assumes an anglo-centric bias that is anathema to everything Milo stands for.
Good. But what does the phrase "so-called foreign language" assume?
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Quote:
Maybe the concepts of "cultural displacement" and "the cultural interspace" are unique to post-colonial, English-speaking cultures of fading European descent
Quote:
I dunno, Hydra, but I think that maybe the paragraph above is intranslatable in all of the so-called foreign languages.
It is to me in English.
Post-colonial theory 101.
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If the Japanese do not have a word for "Kitsch" its because they do not want to have a word for the disgusting rubbish they are selling.
(It sells , so don't even name it except for the Tag name)
I'm referring to this new indeed doe eyed lump of plastic that is supposed to be a doll.
Every parent's nightmare!
The also kitschy Barbies and Baby Borns are genuine works of art compared to these!
Rubbish! post-colonial nightmare nr.1
Last edited by BranShea; 12/14/2006 3:48 PM.
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... what does the phrase "so-called foreign language" assume?
It assumes the writer rejects the anglo-centric bias, opting instead for a do-gooder, wishy-washy, liberal, one-world philosophy.
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It assumes the writer rejects the anglo-centric tendency, choosing instead for a do-gooder, ineffectual, liberal, one world philosophy.
Do-gooder and liberal seem incompatible to me. Depends on what should be understood by "liberal" here.
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That'd be the standard USn definition of liberal, not to be confused with the so-called foreign definition.
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These people don't say the equivalent of, for ex., "I'm going to the store to look for a good pair of shoes"?
Well, first off, it'd be in Chinese or Russian. Second off we were talking about words, not sentences.
The languages I listed have no definite or indefinite articles. My suggestion is that you can translate anything from one language to another. It might be wordy, but ...
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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