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stranger
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stranger
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My favorite word of the day is "simplest" as used by Mr. Gooden "In the basic and simplest sense of the phrase......" Thank Goodeness he didn't say "more simple". It seems that it has become popular to eliminate "er" and "est" these days.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Allo Velton
Welcome to the Board.
Who is Mr. Gooden, and what was he talking about when he uttered that sentence?
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bel, somebody didn't read her W.A.D. today. [/tsk tsk] Welcome, Velton. I'm also glad he didn't say "more simple." That's comparative. "Simplest" is superlative. 
Last edited by AnnaStrophic; 04/03/2006 6:09 PM.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Absolutely right, ma choupette. Done and rectified. 
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comparative ... superlative.
But you only have to know the difference if you find some value in a prescriptivist perspective on language. Otherwise, just use whatever you like.
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Quote:
comparative ... superlative.
But you only have to know the difference if you find some value in a prescriptivist perspective on language. Otherwise, just use whatever you like.
There you go again. Descriptivists describe the language that is. That it occasionally corresponds to the language prescriptivists prescribe is pure chance.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Dost thoust notst knowst whenst thoust arest beingst teasedst?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Uh-huh.
It's hard to tell with prescrips.
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Carpal Tunnel
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It is interesting that though the more X and most X constructions have been slowly replacing the older Xer and Xest in the comparative and the superlative forms of nouns adjective, they are not in free variation. Something to do with syllable count. faster ?more fast heavier more heavy curiouser more curious *polysyllabicker more polysyllabic
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Quote:
It is interesting that though the more X and most X constructions have been slowly replacing the older Xer and Xest in the comparative and the superlative forms of nouns adjective, they are not in free variation. Something to do with syllable count.
faster
?more fast
heavier
more heavy
curiouser
more curious
*polysyllabicker
more polysyllabic
I haven't looked at your link but I suspect that's been the rule all along. The issue begins when you get down to one-syllable words.
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Pooh-Bah
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Isn't it also partly to do with the origins of English? Simpler or more common words followed the Germanic/Saxon rules of compounding words while the fancier words used by the more suave speakers followed the add-separate-words rule of the French/Norman conquerors.
Less about syllabicity than elegance?
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Carpal Tunnel
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irregular sets of compartive/superlative are interesting too
good, better, best is one, near, nigh, next is another..
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Carpal Tunnel
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Quote:
irregular sets of compartive/superlative are interesting near, nigh, next is another..
Citation for these as a comparative set, please? The dictionaries I have access to list "near" and "nigh" as interchangeable synonyms. In fact, not only does no dictionary I consulted offer "nigh" as a comparative of "near" the AHD even offers comparative inflections of "nigh" Also, the etymology for "next" suggests that it was in fact a very REGULAR superlative. I had guessed as much from my rusty German, and the trusty AHD confirmed it:
Quote:
Middle English nexte, from Old English nehsta, nhst, superlative of nah, near.
Given this, I would be very interested to read the sources for the claim you make.
Last edited by sjmaxq; 04/05/2006 2:02 AM.
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Holy cow--is EVERYone in a bad mood, as well as I? Is it the full moon, or something?
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Quote:
Holy cow--is EVERYone in a bad mood, as well as I? Is it the full moon, or something?
How is asking for support of an unsubstantiated assertion proof of one's being in a bad mood?
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Carpal Tunnel
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max, i think it was take our word for it--but i can't remember exactly were i saw (it was an internet location.. i'll have to search)
but even you state in your comment, that next is a superlative of near (did i get them out of order?) should it be nigh, near, next--could be.
i suppose, the (vowel) R, ending of near, and the e()t ending of next could make them semi regular..
certainly there are other semi irregular sets,
(after all worse becomes worst, not worsest--except of course, by 4 year olds who haven't quite mastered irregular ending to words)
it fun to be around young kids, and be reminded of irregular and semi irregular words, (be they verbs or compartive/superlative words, or otherwise).
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Of course there's also the set I learned about when I was a kid: Ill, sick, dead.
TEd
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Quote:
(did i get them out of order?) should it be nigh, near, next--could be.
Yup. nigh is from OE neah, near is from the comparative and next from the superlative. Regular and irregular are somewhat imprecise terms in English grammar. There is a rough correspondence between strong and irregular verbs and between weak and regular verbs in Old and Modern English but the verb teach, considered irregular in Modern English, is from a weak verb in Old English.
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Yeah, but, the more X form is newer than the Xer one.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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There are also suppletive comparisons: e.g., good, better, best, bad, worse, worst, et al.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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It's a pretty standard etymology of the words near and next, the comparative and superlative of nigh. Any decent dictionary with etymologies should list it.
The more interesting uses of the -st suffix is in words like first, amongst, and betwixt. Separate suffix or the same one?
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Oh, dear; oh, my. For nigh, near, and next. [Sorry, Faldo.]
Last edited by zmjezhd; 04/05/2006 12:37 PM.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Carpal Tunnel
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There's also the relationships of of and over, up and upper.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Is it the full moon, or something?
Must be that 1/2/3/4/5/6 thing.
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Ok so Nigh yeild nigher and nighest, and near has nearer and nearest, but
waistcoat (with its old UK prononciation of w(schwa)s cot created a whole new word in US--> wescot! (and the in US we say GRIND stone, not grin stin--
there are many words that people know in spoken vocabulary, that get mangled when commited to paper (classicly, baited breath*--yes, i know, its bated breath!)
it quite possible (likely?) people who were unfamiliar with the irregular set of compartive and superlative set nigh/near/next would treat each word individually and create, following the regular rules sets of compartive words for nigh and near.
(slang and cartoons use nextest--a silly superlative of a superlative (to match worsest!--mostest exist too, (as in the hostest with the mostest (there is another set, (more/most)
usage errors that have lead to whole new words are not exactly unknow in english.
more about baited breath--be prepared to groan..
in the mid west, and north of part of america, ice fishing is a common winter activity.
there are huts and often open sites where people ice fish.
many long cold hours pass, and most of the fishermen on one lake are finding nothing biting. but as they begin to head back to shore, they come across a bunch of grinning girls who have a pile of fish.
several fishermen stand by for a few minutes, and watch as one of the girl pulls yet another fish out of the ice!
he is amazed and asks "what your secret?" the girl mumbles something he doesn't understand, so he askes again.
by now, the fish is landed and girl is ready to bait another hook.. so she opens her mouth, spits out a handfull of night crawlers, and says "warm bait"--a classic case of baited breath!
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Nigh is the adjective, near was the comparative (more X, Xer) of nigh, and next was the superlative (most X, Xest) of nigh. Nearer and nearest are, historically, a kind of hyper-comparison (cf. more better and bestest).
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Then there's oth, other and othest.
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Pooh-Bah
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moth, mother and ?? 
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veteran
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Quote:
moth, mother and ??
moth, mother, and mother dearest. 
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Pooh-Bah
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...Mothra, a real mother of a moth.
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And we can thank the Japanese for the invention of all Mothras.
TEd
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Pooh-Bah
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I thought Oppenheimer et al were ultimately responsible for Mothra, Godzilla, etc.
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Quote:
I thought Oppenheimer et al were ultimately responsible for Mothra, Godzilla, etc.
Well, the dentist who specializes in treating reptiles is responsible for the latter. Ever seen the movie Godzilla Achers?
TEd
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Pooh-Bah
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I wrote a short love poem once that among other things assumed that moths had feet. This brought shivers to a third-party reader. I am heartened to see, in this photograph, evidence that my original assumption was correct, and that love, if lost, is vindicated.
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I never thought about it insel. Aren't the end of insect legs feet?
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TEd
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Quote:
Clams got legs??
Clams got legs.
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Oh goodness. I had forgotten the "Now I have to kill him" bit. Any idea when this was, besides a good bit ago? I'm thinking going on twenty years, perhaps more.
TEd
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was actually about 40 years ago.
TEd
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