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Well? Does anyone else have something to say? Maybe I've been a little too impertinent in my abstract to warrant a serious response. Oh well, win some, lose some, your loss, my gain. 
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Allo Milum What do you mean they become husbands when the gang breaks up in the spring? Do the females fly elsewhere in the winter? It'd be interesting to know if some of the birds go out to look for feeding grounds and lead the flock to them. Let me go see if I can find anything on the net. ============================== I found this cool site while looking on the net to see if I could find an answer to my question about the foraging. Cornell Lab of Ornithology
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Good site Bel, this part, in particular, is right down my alley... Quote:
Where Have All the Robins Gone?
What happened to all the robins? I’m not seeing them any more.
Each year in late summer and fall, robins leave the territories where they’ve raised their young. They spend fall and winter in flocks, traveling to places where they can find more food. In fall, we receive questions from people in some areas who are wondering where the robins have gone, and questions from people elsewhere who are incredulous because they’ve been inundated with large flocks of robins.
By flocking, the robins benefit by having more eyes to look out for predators and to find food. You probably won’t see individual robins again until spring when the demands of finding and defending a territory cause them to leave the flock and strike out on their own.
Although robins are one of the most familiar and widespread birds in North America, their patterns of movement are poorly understood. In fall, their migrations are often influenced by the availability of fruit, but in spring they move in response to the availability of soil invertebrates, such as earthworms. Their numbers in particular places may vary from year to year.
Robin sightings reported by participants of the Great Backyard Bird Count show that robins tend to avoid areas with deep snow cover. This makes sense, since they often search for food in the soil.
In Feburary I was amazed to see several hundred robins flocking about in the trees and grounds of the Huntsville Alabama library. At first I mistook them for Red-breasted Blackbirds (which, in a taxonomic way, that's what they are) but I was told that Red-breasted Blackbirds are particular to the western states so I guess they were robins.
No, Bel, I can't well sex flocking winter birds but it is known that some bands of crop destructive blackbirds are made up of only young unattached males.
I will elaborate later.
Thanks for your interest.
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I was quite curious about what bird you meant when you were talking about robins.
There wasn't any specific clasification for "robin" so I started at the top and found "american Robin." It's what we call a "merle d'Amérique" (the merle of America) or "rouge gorge" (red throat).
I've never seen a flock of robins. It must be beautiful. Robins are seldom seen here. It's a happy thing to see a robin. Seeing two together is rare enough that you'll tell the folks at work when you get to the office.
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We see no robins here. I see cormorants sometimes, cattle egrets, pearl-eyed thrashers, hummingbirds, a few parrot-beaked anis, a woodpecker that is endemic to this part of the Caribbean, some sea eagles and hawks I don't know the proper names of but if you go into the mangrove swamps in winter, you find all types of water dependent snow birds.
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Pooh-Bah
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Good heavens, I thought the snowbirds would be on the beaches.
(Canadian term for retired folk who head south every year at the first hint of frost)
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Same in Michigan, Zed, but they were named after the birds not vice versa. We've got the human ones here, too, and they are on the beaches and in the hotels and clogging up the roads, etc. etc. 
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>>>We've got the human ones here, too, and they are on the beaches and in the hotels
Phewf, good thing to hear Consuelo. Zed and I were about to mount a rescue operation to save our old folks from the swamps.
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Blackbirds fly east into the morning sun, they don't contemplate, they just fly. Some take position in the uppermost limbs of the barren winter trees while most feed on the ground. You, the few folks here who care, must reason why some of this gathering of birds are willing to forgo feeding for the common good. Your answers, as members of a communal group of strange animals, will contribute towards our understanding of the nature of the cultural import of life. Don't you think?
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Quote:
Don't you think?
Of course I think. Every Saturday, need it or not.
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> must reason why some of this gathering of birds are willing to forgo feeding for the common good.
don't they trade off? I've watched flocks of turkeys do the same thing; a tom will stand watch for a while, and then another will take over. meerkats do it too, na?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Quote:
Don't they trade off? I've watched flocks of turkeys do the same thing; a tom will stand watch for a while, and then another will take over. meerkats do it too, na?
Exactly, etaoin, but what is the stimulus that promps, and the impetus that fuels, this seemingly altruistic example of avian behavior?
This is the $64 question.
Quote:
Of course I think. Every Saturday, need it or not.
And good thinking you do, good Faldage. Your burden is your over-filled mind. For many months of Saturdays you have filled your considerable brain with a statictical stadium of double-headers and switch-hitters while excogitating until the wee hours of night for the answer to that great burning philosophical question of all Baseballdom, namely "Who's on First?".
I am here to help. I am going to do your thinking for you.
Very slowly I am going to count to one hundred and then if you or etaoin and anybody else hasn't figured out the answer (to the bird question not the baseball question) I will give it here in the next post.
Last edited by themilum; 04/08/2006 12:35 PM.
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uh, basic survival of the species?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Quote:
uh, basic survival of the species?
...twenty-six...twenty-seven.
(So right you really are, etaoin. But since all actions of all lifeforms are directed towards the continuation of the species or else they don't continue, it would serve us better here if you would go ahead and burn an extra brain cell or two and try to be a little more specific)...now where was I?...oh yeah,
twenty-two...twenty-three...
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uh, maybe they get more girls?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Pooh-Bah
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They get to watch Britney Spears sunbathing by her swimming pool.
They get to change the rhyme to three and twenty.
They compete to see who can perch on the tiniest, wavingest, whippingest branch of the old oak tree.
They get to shit on their mate's lover, who is feeding below them.
They get to spot acorns and then dive bomb to open them.
They get nearer to God.
They look pretty as desiccated Christmas Balls in season and out.
They are calling the other birds to prayer.
They are looking to see if the British are coming.
The air is better up there.
They get to watch and see where all the good chow is.
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Not half bad, inselpeter. Like I've said, you've got too much imagination to be a dry punctilious bird watcher. And of course you are right, from tree tops they can better see available food and Britney Spears as well as hungry hawks and kids with BB guns. But you didn't address the question at hand. I'll rephrase it... What is the instigating behavioral mechanism for some blackbirds to sit diligently at the tops of tall trees while all the other blackbirds merrily feed on the bountiful ground below ? Just who in the hell elected them as leaders?  Or, alternately, Why are these poor birds being punished while all other birds get to eat? twenty-nine...thirty...thirty-one...
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I certainly did address the problem. Your question, so it would seem, asks for behavioral incentives, and I provided several, of which one might be sufficient for a black bird. Poontang might be another. And I would hasten to add that this behavior in itself does not make them leaders, but guards. I will be interested to see what solution you offer, and what supporting evidence. Your speculations can be interesting but, all things being equal, one speculation is as good as another.
Anyway, I rather like birds.
An amateur naturalist friend of mine who, during his retirement, built two nature museums and inummerable nature paths on his property near Ludlow, VT, posted a 3x5 card on the wall that said something about avian metabolism and skull size, and then continued, "birds are not very intelligent, but they are highly emotional." He signed it with the name of an invented authority. It still makes me chuckle. apropos birds, only
Last edited by inselpeter; 04/08/2006 6:56 PM.
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> Ludlow, VT
pretty country down there. I have friends in Belmont.
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...seventy-six...seventy-seven... Quote:
uh, maybe they get more girls?
Think a bit, etaoin. Winter birds are not like everready human bunny rabbits, they court only in the spring.
Quote:
I certainly did address the problem. Your question, so it would seem, asks for behavioral incentives, and I provided several, of which one might be sufficient for a black bird... And I would hasten to add that this behavior in itself does not make them leaders, but guards. I will be interested to see what solution you offer, and what supporting evidence. Your speculations can be interesting but, all things being equal, one speculation is as good as another.
Now inselpeter, you really must take care with your semantics.
In "speculations", as in everything, all things are never equal,
and since nothing at all can be "proved" absolutely, we are left with our attempt to understand the World by reasoning with words.
But we won't get far if you keep anthropomorphizing birds as "guards" and not "leaders".
...seventy-eight....seventy-nine...
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> Think a bit, etaoin. Winter birds are not like everready human bunny rabbits, they court only in the spring.
that don't mean they don't think the girls aren't still watching.
formerly known as etaoin...
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Quote:
that don't mean they don't think the girls aren't still watching.
Etaoin, let's say for example you have a bird brain.
Could you remember in the spring that cute chick you saw when flocking around during the winter?
Sixty-six...sixty-seven...
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formerly known as etaoin...
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Quote:
… let's say for example you have a bird brain.
Could you remember in the spring that cute chick you saw when flocking around during the winter?
Considering what we're learning about bird brains lately I wouldn't reject that hypothesis so readily. Besides, the behaviour is shared, the members of a given flock are probably closely related and share the genetic trait. The trait contributes to the overall survival rate of the flock. What more do you need?
I do eagerly await whatever whackadoodle milo nonsense you're about to come up with. Get to a hundred already.
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Just who in the hell elected them as leaders?
They have elections, but it is at night when you can't see them and they clean up all of the balloting materials and put them away before the sun comes up.
Four hundred twenty seven, six and three quarters, forty two point oh eight five.
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eighty-six...eighty-eight... aaah, stick it! I'm tired of counting. The time of reckoning is now. You all have did your dids and dabbed your dabs and now you must stand naked before reality. In a short minuite I will post the truth about flocking birds and presto-chango you all will magically become wiser. See you post-haste (so to speak).
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Quote:
...seventy-six...seventy-seven...
Quote:
uh, maybe they get more girls?
Think a bit, etaoin. Winter birds are not like everready human bunny rabbits, they court only in the spring.
Quote:
I certainly did address the problem. Your question, so it would seem, asks for behavioral incentives, and I provided several, of which one might be sufficient for a black bird... And I would hasten to add that this behavior in itself does not make them leaders, but guards. I will be interested to see what solution you offer, and what supporting evidence. Your speculations can be interesting but, all things being equal, one speculation is as good as another.
Now inselpeter, you really must take care with your semantics.
In "speculations", as in everything, all things are never equal,
and since nothing at all can be "proved" absolutely, we are left with our attempt to understand the World by reasoning with words.
But we won't get far if you keep anthropomorphizing birds as "guards" and not "leaders".
...seventy-eight....seventy-nine...
You know, Milo, I happen to think you can be pretty funny, so I read you, but what you call a discussion is such a heap styrene bear traps as to be at best perplexing. If I am anthropomorphizing, it is only following your lead (and I should know better). 'Twas you who first suggested the role of leader. This is IP signing off this evidently non-interactive thread. All the best, mate.
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He's at his funniest when he thinks he's trying to fool us into thinking he's pretending to be serious.
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Quote:
He's at his funniest when he thinks he's trying to fool us into thinking he's pretending to be serious.
Notso Faldage, but I'm at my best when I'm trying to provoke you into chiding me in your 10,000th AWAD post. 
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Quote:
… your 10,000th AWAD post.
Glad you're keeping track.
And you're just so cute and chidable, you big ol' Christmas turkey, you.
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I'm not keeping track, faldage, I'm watching with intent.
Your 10,000th post is a milestone event. Your thoughts have improved the lives of many of us here who have taken the time to listen to your learned pronouncements.
You sir, are a polymath, as was and is your predecessor, namely, "Bill Hunt".
You sir, are in good company, and so is Bill Hunt.
Salute!
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I like stats, too.
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Quote:
I like stats, too.
Good, etaoin, because you are one today, and one day in the future you will, God willing, be another one. 
Which brings me back to birds. (See next post) 
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Insights into Understanding Collective Flight
and Feeding Behavior of Black Birds in Winter
Abstract: While flying to feeding grounds and when engaged in maneuvers related to selecting sites for feeding, flocking blackbirds utilize certain aspects of pre-adaptive behavior, and apply certain principals of probability theory in order to maximize the chances of a successful feed.
Observations
With first light groups of blackbirds emerge from the cover of large leafed evergreen trees and fly to resting places on wires or barren trees to warm their feathers in the morning sun. A small time later, after other birds who have nested elsewhere join up with them, they lope off, flying towards the morning sun.
Sometimes it takes a while to catch up with them and usually they are on the ground feeding when the observer (me) locates the feeding flock.
Edit: (to be concluded this week.)
Last edited by themilum; 04/16/2006 10:56 PM.
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Pooh-Bah
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. . . a lot of smoke and hokum signifying nothing.
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Quote:
. . . a lot of smoke and hokum signifying nothing.
And where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
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Pooh-Bah
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And where there are mirrors there are vanities
And where there are vanities, there are girls
And where there are girls, there is no explanation
[/water off back]
Last edited by inselpeter; 05/02/2006 9:38 AM.
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