#15379
01/14/2001 9:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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To dear jmh...
Even though it is illegal, many college students obtain and consume alcoholic beverages. If the police arrive on the scene (noisy party complaint?) the underage drinkers could be arrested for illegal possession of an alcoholic beverage, a misdemeanor generally carrying just a fine.
As to weddings: they are private parties for the most part in USA and I think there is something about "married persons" being legal adults but whether or not it applies to "drinking" I dunno.
For heaven's sake ... don't tell me there isn't there a Board contributor who has an attorney Mom or Dad?
Is there a lawyer in the house?
wow
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#15380
01/14/2001 9:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>Even though it is illegal, many college students obtain and consume alcoholic beverages. If the police arrive...
I suppose that I was being flippant (although I really am not sure that I could have got through without alcohol). I'm sure that some of the things that I think are perfectly acceptable will seem strange to others. I think that the whole structure of student social life when I was a student revolved around "going down the pub". It may have just been for an hour from 10pm until closing time at 11pm and rarely involved drunken behaviour or it could have been for an hour or so after lectures in the Students Union bar. It seems strange that we could have been looking over our shoulders in case there was a police raid in the same way as if we'd been dealing in Class A drugs.
I think that the "pub" is a rather different place here than a bar in America. In most of the places where I have lived we regularly take the children for lunch in the pub, I don't remember being worried about the effect it may be having on their moral fibre.
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#15381
01/16/2001 7:52 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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In reply to:
how different languages form acronyms - any experience people have in other languages with this?
This is a very productive method of word formation in Indonesian. I've mentioned warnet (warung internet internet kiosk) before. Most provinces and some smaller administrative districts have official acronyms: I live in Jaksel (Jakarta Selatan = South Jakarta, and work in Jakpus (Jakarta Pusat = Central Jakarta). Batagor = bakso dan tahu goreng (fried meat or fish balls and tofu) is a popular snack.
Initialisms are also popular, such as the slang term ABG anak baru gede newly big child = someone in their late teens.
Bureaucrats love them. I sometimes think they must spend half their time dreaming up acronymic titles for themselves, such as Kakanwil Kepala kantor wilayah = head of regional office.
Numbers can also be used in initialisms, e.g., P4D Panitia Penyelesaian Perselisihan Perburuhan Daerah Local Committee for the Resolution of Labour Disputes (or as Enigma would have it: Panned peony Persephone perceivable Daffodil (and they said poetry was dead!)).
Bingley
Bingley
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#15382
01/16/2001 4:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
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<Settling powdered wig firmly on head and adjusting robe in preparation for lecture>
With the repeal of national prohibition, the United States Constitution was amended to provide that the "transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited." US Const, Am XXI.
This provision was included in the repeal of prohibition to afford independent authority to the various states to regulate the production and use of alcohol. Because the authority is specified in the federal constitution, it exists on equal footing with other constitutional provisions and is not easily limited. The resultant laws vary not only from state to state, but in some places, from county to county or city to city.
In Michigan, which is one of 18 states known as "control" states, the manufacture, sale and consumption of alcohol is closely controlled, and every bottle which comes into the state is wholesaled by the state and is highly taxed. The legal drinking age is 21, with limited exceptions, such as certain educational and religious uses. MCL 436.33b(13).
It matters not to the policymakers that persons who are regarded as too young to responsibly consume alcohol are legally old enough to serve in the military, marry, contract, be employed, or otherwise go about their adult lives; the regulation of alcohol generates revenue. There is a good argument to be made that strict controls only make alcohol an object of desire and its use a right of passage, and, consequently, render our teens alcohol abusers. But, the standard for strict control of alcohol was established by the cultural descendents of Puritans, and that cultural standard combines with the monetary interests of the states to perpetuate the situation.
I prefer a more sensible approach. Recently, when my three-year-old son kept trying to help himself to a glass of Chardonnay my husband was drinking, I poured some in a separate cup for him and let him have a sip. He took one taste, his whole body shuddered, and he walked over and dumped the contents of the cup down the drain. And that will be the last time he thinks alcohol is the thing for quite some time.
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#15383
01/16/2001 4:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544 |
IITYWYBMAD is the acronym for this thread.
Two questions about this:
1. Whatever does it mean? I'm just back from a long weekend, and the synapses are occasionally shooting off a random spark, but certainly not firing sufficiently to work this out.
2. If it is indeed an acronym, how does one pronounce it?
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#15384
01/16/2001 4:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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If I tell you will you buy me a drink?
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#15385
01/16/2001 4:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
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addict
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If I tell you will you buy me a drink?Ouch! I had actually already read the answer, and still didn't get it. Better send them synapses in for a complete overhaul. 
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#15386
01/16/2001 5:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
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>It matters not to the policymakers that persons who are regarded as too young to responsibly consume alcohol are legally old enough to ....
But, Sparteye, the policymakers here in the US are (and always have been) the people themselves. If they felt strongly enough about it, they could elect legislators who would change the legal drinking age to 7. Or to 150, which is basically what happened with the Great Experiment, as I believe it was caused.
Who was it that said a Baptist was a person who was terrified that somewhere, somehow, there just might be someone who was having fun???
TEd
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#15387
01/16/2001 6:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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A lot of people disregard many laws daily, for they know well "the spirit of the law" has not been broken. One's ability to make this "judgement" has become the issue, yet, those that did it for "us" aren't around anymore to see what is left of that spirit. That's why "created equal" is again (and again and again and...) in question.
I've got a "new" word for "us" to ponder.
CLASSHOLE
Jackie - I'm having a day off - - - really
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#15388
01/16/2001 6:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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But, Sparteye, the policymakers here in the US are (and always have been) the people themselves. If they felt strongly enough about it, they could elect legislators who would change the legal drinking age to 7. Or to 150, which is basically what happened with the Great Experiment, as I believe it was caused.Those civics classes weren't wasted on you, were they? I just love to see a true believer in action! 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#15389
01/16/2001 7:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Today's newspaper, in a very timely manner, mentions that three small towns in Kentucky are voting on whether to be
"wet" or "dry". Little old lady says the town's been fine without liquor for 150 yrs., why bring it in now to risk
moral decay. Next-door neighbor says, because all the people go spend their money in the nearest town where they can buy a drink.
They may indeed elect new officials next time, Ted.
On to a musick note: good, connotative word, Dearest!
I, too, seem to be taking a day off of everything but this board! (Conscience, get thee behind me.)
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#15390
01/16/2001 9:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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(Conscience, get thee behind me.)Jackie - Reminds me of the preacher's wife who came home with a new dress. "I couldn't resist the temptation," the wife said. "You should have told the devil to get behind you," said the Preacher. "I did, dear, but the Devil told me 'It looks lovely from the back, too'"  RE LIQUOR. In New Hampshire, 1973 I think, the state legislature lowered the drinking age from 21 to 18. After a couple of years the 21-to-drink was reinstated and there it stays. NH also has state controlled liquor. The prices, should you be in the neighborhood, are VERY reasonable. The state in days past was big on painting things a deep green, including the doors of the State Liquor Stores. Now, here's one more bit of info which I will tie in, your honor, if you'll grant me a litle leeway. During Prohibition liquor could be legally obtained for "medical reasons" with a prescription from an MD. The natural outcome of these seemingly unrelated items is that a run to the liquor store in New Hampshire is often euphemistically called "a trip to see Doc Green." It keeps the Johnny-come-latelys confused. wow
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#15391
01/16/2001 9:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2000
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a trip to see Doc Green
Whereas in Massachusetts, we referred to the liquor store as the "package store" (I would be very grateful to anyone who comes up with an explanation of that one), so going out to get beer, wine, anything alcoholic, was called a "packy run."
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#15392
01/16/2001 10:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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There are two (main) types of liquor licenses here in Chi-Town; 1) the kind that allows you to buy in bulk and serve out of kegs through a tap or by the glass wine, and 2)the kind called a "packaged goods" license, where everything leaves in a brown bag (or plastic). This is why it was called "brown bagging it" (walking down the street and drinking from a bottle you just bought). I've never done that !
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#15393
01/17/2001 12:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
Yes, as musick notes about Chicago, liquor licenses typically distinguish between for-consumption-on-the-premises and alcohol-in-a-package-for-consumption-off-the-premises. So, Hyla's trip to the package store is to buy booze in a bottle to take home. Some states will allow the two to mix, such as restaurants where you can bring your own wine, but in Michigan and other places, you can only consume alcohol on a licensed premises which is furnished by the licensee per the scope of the license.
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#15394
01/17/2001 3:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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In New Zealand, liquor licensing used to be just about the toughest in the known world. A series of reforms has seen the legal drinking age come down to 18, riddled with exceptions, and supermarkets and bottlestores vie to flog beer and wine. Hard liquor appears to remain the province of liquor retailing specialists, but now that licensing hours are virtually 24 x 7, you can basically get anything you want whenever you want it.
Not altogether sure that this is actually a good thing, by the way. Reporting, not editorialising, Wow!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#15395
01/17/2001 9:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
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The times mosr certainly do seem to be a'changin', all over the place.
When I was first starting to drink in pubs, closing time was 10pm during the week, 10.30 on Saturday and it was strictly enforced by the police. "Lock-ins" - i.e. after hours drinking - did occur, but only among close friends of the landlord who could be relied on not to talk about it outside. (You were, literally, locked i to the pub and only allowed out after the landlord had checked that the coast was clear!)
Three months ago, the Landlord of the "Green Dragon" had a call from the police, during the afternoon, who pointed out to him that closing time is 11pm, and they would be greatly obliged if he would make sure that his curtains were closed after that time so that they could not see into the bar as they drove past at 2am.
Many places have licences to 2am, now and the police are no longer interested in trying to maintain a law that has fallen in to disuetude and disrepute.
It seems that 24x7 licencing is just round the corner for the UK, too.
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#15396
01/17/2001 2:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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The state of NJ still has dry counties, and it has very high taxes on liquor in those counties that are wet-- some jersey residents have taken to driving to Maryland to by liquor cheaper. Its not illegal to do, if you then notify NJ tax authority and pay the extra tax (yeah, right!)
So NJ started to send "spy's" to the liquor stores near the border, and write down the plate numbers, and or follow NJ residents home-- as they crossed the border, they would be stopped-- and assessed the taxes on the spot in the form of a fine.
So, NJ residents started to drive from Maryland to Pennsylvania and then to NJ. the longer route made it almost impossbile for cops to track them--So the Jersey cops started to stop NJ drivers as they left Maryland, and entered PA. PA Attorney General put a stop to it, (only permitted for NJ cops to arrest in PA if they are in "Hot Pursuit".)
State of Maryland had no comment. all this occured about 10 years ago-- NJ residents still drive to Maryland to buy liquor.
Some people don't realize that South Jersey is the northern edge of the bible belt!
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#15397
01/17/2001 3:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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musick comments: (walking down the street and drinking from a bottle you just bought). and says that he has never done it.
Neither have I. Now sitting on a curb (kerb, for the True English Challenged) drinking from a bottle in a bag that someone else has (I assume) bought, that's a different story.
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#15398
01/17/2001 3:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
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well our fool is no fool! Its illegal to walk down the street "brown bagging" in NY (it is illegal to walk or drive with an open bottle of alcohol)--so 1) people "brown bag" 2) the sit down on a bench, or stoop, curb or lean against a car-- so they are not walking and drinking at the same time!
it illegal to "brown bag" on the subway, but commutor trains have either bar cars, or kiosks on the platforms before you board the train (for purchasing a drink to go) -- a case of economic discrimination. (commutor trains are about 3 times as expensive as subway) Because of this, LIRR is prefered way to get to Shea stadium, rather than the (in)famous #7 train-- fans can get a head start before they get to game.
No one on the board from the big easy, huh? They have Take out shops-- bars have store windows that will sell beer and other drinks to patrons on the street-- NY's Pizza restraunts often have "take out windows" where you can by a slice, or in the summer an italian ice with out actally entering the store. In NO's, the bars/package shops have the same feature! and you can drink legally on the street.
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#15399
01/17/2001 3:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
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old hand
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of troy stated: NJ residents still drive to Maryland to buy liquor.
Sounds like a lot of trouble for such a rotten drug.
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#15400
01/17/2001 5:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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wow:
Interesting bit of trivia, that!
Virginia kept very tight control on sales of wine and distilled spirits for many years, and still controls spirits. The control was so tight that every ABC store in the state was exactly the same, right down to the size of the store (to the nearest inch!). I know personally of a storefront that was built in a shopping center that was two inches too wide and the Alcoholic Beverage Commission (ABC) refused to sign the lease. The landlord was able to move the walls in an inch on each side (it was not acceptable to move one wall in two inches, but if it had been an inch to narrow they would have had a really large problem!)
Each store had two entry doors, at the front corners, with glass blocks instead of window up to about eye level between the doors. Inside, there were two price lists, one on each side wall, then a counter with one walkthrough, which had to be on the left, with a gate top which had to have the hinge on the left. The store clerk took your order then went to the shelves in the back of the store and retrieved your selection. It was so regimented that each brand and size of booze had a specific place on the shelving. Clerks could not move the more popular stuff up front because the rules told them where to store it and they risked firing if they deviated.
I worked several Christmases at one during the late 60s, so I know this is all true.
Now, wine sales are deregulated to a great extent, but the monopoly on hard liquor sales remains to this day so far as I know. Most of the stores have been converted to self-service, though, so you no longer have a clerk running to get your pint of Jim Beam.
But those laws and regs are nothing compared to Utah. The liquor rules there are REALLY strange. So strange in fact that one store I went into had a sign: If you think your liquor laws are strange you should see our underware!
Ted
TEd
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