#15228
01/10/2001 1:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Can you, oh learned brethren, please suggest a good 'primer' type volume to offer an aged brain an intro to formal grammar in English? There may be EFL books that would suit, but I am hoping someone will know of the ideal analysis for an adult learner whose first tongue is mangled through ignorance.
Online resources may also be interesting, if you have found something apposite in your etravels and travails.
Thanks.
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#15229
01/10/2001 3:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 11,613 |
Sweet Auntie mav, These look good. I'm glad you're back. I've missed you, and your funny and thoughtful posts. These are from Amazon. When I copied and clicked on the url, it gave me a "browser bug?" screen--???, so I just copied the first few titles. For more, I guess you'll have to go to Amazon.com, and search under Books for Grammar. Sorry I couldn't do better. 1. Grammar Smart : A Guide to Perfect Usage (The Princeton Review) by Nell Goddin, Erik Palma(Editor) (Paperback - September 1993) Our Price: $9.60 Grammar Rock: A list by perry_atterberry, Reference Editor, Amazon.com (7 item list) 2. English Grammar in Use : A Self-Study Reference and Practice Book for Intermediate Students With Answers by Raymond Murphy (Paperback - February 1994) Our Price: $19.25 The Essential Reference Library: A list by Jane Snyder, Toys Editor, Amazon.com (9 item list) 3. The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation by Jane Straus (Paperback) Our Price: $11.95 Great Book Avid Readers: A list by polyjarod, Future English Instructor (10 item list) 4. 100 Clear Grammar Tests : Reproducible Grammar Tests for Beginning to Intermediate Esl/Efl Classes by Keith S. Folse, et al (Paperback - January 2000) Our Price: $29.95 5. 100 Writing Remedies : Practical Exercises for Technical Writing by Edmond H. Weiss (Paperback - August 1990) Our Price: $20.25 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-0863703-9996643Your loving niece
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#15230
01/10/2001 4:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
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Carpal Tunnel
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Strunk & White "Elements of Style"
... and there used to be a paperback booklet called "Everything You Wanted to Know About English But Were Afraid To Ask," if it is still available.
I found it very useful when helping 12-year-olds with grammar. Clear easy to follow. Good examples. Very basic.
wow
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#15231
01/11/2001 11:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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mav, IMHO, Jackie hit it spot on with her first find: Grammar Smart. Of all the books I'm familiar with, it's the one I recommend. Strunk & White is still the Bible for usage, but Grammar Smart will give you the formal rules your friend is looking for, mav. 
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#15232
01/11/2001 3:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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"Spot on"--Anna, I use that too, now. Our Britspeak pals
are rubbing off on us! Sometimes I even type: grey. I like that word dodgy, too. Nice for imagining all kinds of implications.
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#15233
01/11/2001 4:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Britspeak ... Sometimes I even type: grey ... dodgyWell, Jackie, I just guess it goes to show that all dodgy grey cats are gray in the dark, no matter where they are. 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#15234
01/12/2001 7:47 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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"Dodgy" is a wonderful word, Jackie, especially when modified by "a bit." I've been speaking mid-Atlantic English for nigh on to 25 years now.... covers a multitude of sins.  (Though I refuse to alter or augment my vowels ['jmh notwithstanding' emoticon])
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#15235
01/12/2001 7:57 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
>(Though I refuse to alter or augment my vowels ['jmh notwithstanding' emoticon])
We are working on you Anna. One day, when you least expect it, out of the blue you will look at a page of your own writing and there in the midst will be a "colour"! "Auauauauagh" you will shriek - the U-files have got me! And we Brits will smile sweetly as we stir our tea.
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#15236
01/12/2001 12:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 11,613 |
We are working on you Anna
No, Anna, no! Don't let them take yo! Resist with all
yor might! jmh, it's no "use"!
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#15237
01/12/2001 1:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1 |
Formal grammar in English!!! Oxymoron it that not is?
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#15238
01/12/2001 2:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Oxymoron it that not is?
Well, as a product of the post hippy years schooling, for me it definitely is an oxy! Which I now want to redress by at least understanding more of the metalanguage by which some have sought to codify what we all use and abuse...
So thanks, all - keep the comments rolling if you have a particular tome you think would help me in this quest.
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#15239
01/12/2001 6:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Jo, Evil Brit Conspiracy or no, I'll take a can o' Co-Cola and a plateful of Consonant Clusters any day. "Auauauauagh" , Schmauauauauagh
The Truth is Out There. And it has only one U [conspiratorial wink emoticon aimed @ Jackie].
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#15240
01/12/2001 6:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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incunabula inquires, perhaps rhetorically: ... Oxymoron it that not is? Anastrophic, almost that is?
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#15241
01/13/2001 9:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004 |
Which I now want to redress by at least understanding more of the metalanguage by which some have sought to codify what we all use and abuse...
Mav
Why not try the 'anti-grammatical' approach - read Stephen Pinker's The Language Instinct and amaze and impress your friends by speaking of 'deep structure', 'noun phrases', 'headless words' and the rest while deploring the vulgarly archaic tendency to prescribe grammar when, in fact, most anathematised usages are regular formations.
And, for the Americans - repeat after me:
Flavour
Metre
Grey
Aluminium
Through
[Casca to Jo's Brutus in this Brit conspiracy emoticon]
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#15242
01/13/2001 2:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
Through
And how exactly do you think we spell this word?
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#15243
01/13/2001 2:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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And, for the Americans - repeat after me:
Flavor
Meter
Gray
Aluminum
Through
Nyah nyah!
Missed you, Sweetie.
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#15244
01/17/2001 10:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004 |
ThroughAnd how exactly do you think we spell this word?I was probably simply referring to the tendency, particularly in comic books and other 'informal' literature, for the American spelling to go: thru. I am sure it is not mainstream usage - fear not, my gross calumny will go no further...
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#15245
01/17/2001 12:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Controversy raged about "through"
As AWADers joined in the quough
To brandish the "ough" files
And raise a fough blough smiles,
Insisting their spelling was trough.
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#15246
01/17/2001 1:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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applause! whistles! cheers!
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#15247
01/17/2001 1:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Deep bow in acknowledgement 
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#15248
01/18/2001 6:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 163
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 163 |
I was probably simply referring to the tendency, particularly in comic books and other 'informal' literature, for the American spelling to go: thru
THRU is a COBOL reserved word. I've been using it for years and its use has spared me from lots of typing errors.
_______BYE-BYE.
_______________PERFORM END-THIS-POST THRU XEND-THIS-POST.
_______________STOP RUN.
______***
_______END-THIS-POST.
_______________DISPLAY "Juan Maria."
_______XEND-THIS-POST.
_______________EXIT.
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#15249
01/18/2001 7:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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juanmaria, you forgot a line: _______BYE-BYE.
_______________PERFORM END-THIS-POST THRU XEND-THIS-POST.
_______________STOP RUN.
______***
_______END-THIS-POST.
_______________DISPLAY "Juan Maria."
_______XEND-THIS-POST.
_______________GOTO BYE_BYE.
_______________EXIT.This will make you INFINITELY more memorable.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#15250
01/18/2001 7:57 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
re: through
Next one for Upper Middle Americans/Lower Northern Americans, ie those living between Northern America and Central America, (any Alaskans/people from Hawaii - see me):
Pronounce "thorough"
Clue: It rhymes with Edinburgh
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#15251
01/18/2001 1:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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shanks requests: And, for the Americans - repeat after me:
Flavour
Metre
Grey
Aluminium
Through
Flave hour
Met ree
gree
Alumm in yum
Thruff
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#15252
01/18/2001 3:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
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Carpal Tunnel
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Thruff equals Through ??? In USA through is pronounced same as threw. PLEASE ... how, where, why, when ...THRUFF ????  wow
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#15253
01/18/2001 4:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,803 |
wow wonders: Thruff equals Through ???
Or, if you prefer, thrawg.
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#15254
01/18/2001 4:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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From Faldage : wow wonders: Thruff equals Through ???
Or, if you prefer, thrawg.
I give up. It's all Greek to me
wow
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#15255
01/18/2001 5:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 11,613 |
wow wonders: Thruff equals Through ???
It does if it's pronounced to rhyme with tough and rough.
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#15256
01/18/2001 5:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,146 |
through = thru in pronunciation
thorough = thu ruh in pronounciation
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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