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A tefillin or a phylactery? Does it depend on where -- on the arm, on the head, for example -- it is worn? My dictionary yields no answer to this question. See here : http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9060/teffillin1dl.jpgEdited typo.
Last edited by Homo Loquens; 11/24/2005 7:17 AM.
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No. Moreover, 'where' is not a question that enters the picture at all. The straps which bind the tefillin to the head or arm are different, so that each one in a set of two is worn only on the head or only on the arm. While there may be some differences in how they are tied and, in certain cases, the order of the verses inscribed on their parchments, there isn't any leeway about where they are worn. Phylactery is, I believe, of greek derivation, and tefillin of Hebrew. The first, singular, comes from a word for guard house, the second, 'plural,' comes from the word for prayer (it is plural for prayer, but singular for tefillin, I think). The Greek is the more accurate, since tefillin are not, in their origin, worn for prayer, per se, but during all daylight hours. And because as 'signs,' they are meant more or less as guardians of faith.
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Quote:
No. Moreover, 'where' is not a question that enters the picture at all. The straps which bind the tefillin to the head or arm are different, so that each one in a set of two is worn only on the head or only on the arm [...] there isn't any leeway about where they are worn.
My question was about the tefillin/phylactery, not the straps, supposing, as you seem to, that these are to be regarded as separate objects.
Besides which, in stating that the tefillin may be worn "only" on the head or "only" on the arm you are not doing your point justice. What you mean to say is that the tefillin may be worn either on the head or arm, in which case "where" does potentially enter the picture especially when you consider that the differentiating attribute of the anklet and the bracelet -- otherwise being two identical ornamental hoops -- is where on the body they are worn.
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Phylactery is, I believe, of greek derivation, and tefillin of Hebrew.
What makes you think I couldn't find -- hadn't found -- these etymologies in whatever dictionary happened to be in reach? My question was simply : Is it a phylactery or a tefillin?
And consider :
tefillin
plural noun
collective term for Jewish phylacteries.
ORIGIN from Aramaic tepillin ‘prayers.’
and for phylactery :
phylactery
noun ( pl. -teries)
a small leather box containing Hebrew texts on vellum, worn by Jewish men at morning prayer as a reminder to keep the law.
phylactery
ORIGIN late Middle English : via late Latin from Greek phulakt?rion ‘amulet,’ from phulassein ‘to guard.’
Quote:
The Greek is the more accurate
My first thought was that they were synonyms, in which instance your instruction to choose a term according to a suppositious assessment of the tenability of their respective etymologies would hold; however, the definition for "tefillin" as "a collective term for Jewish phylacteries" suggests that there is more than one kind of phylactery; otherwise, why should there be a collective term for a single object?
Your tone of admonitory didacticism was promising, but ultimately leaves my question unanswered.
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"tefillot" (prayers) is the plural for "tefilla" (prayer)
Oh, and there's no singular for "tefillin" AFAIK (well, there might be, I never heard of one and neither did my parents... and they're 60!), so I think it serves as both plural and singular (perhaps because the "tefillin" is a set, made from a number of items [and each of them has individual designation?]?). Just a speculation...
Anyway "frontlet" translate as "phylactery worn on the forehead (Judaism)", and there's "prayer-fillet" which translate as "tefillin for the head". "Totaphot" is the (plural) Hebraic equivalent of them.
I used to "lay tefillin" a while before and after my bar-mitzvah. But no religion-talks right?? *ducks under a foxhole*
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Singular tfilla f. sb. 'prayer; phylactery', plural tfillin 'prayers; phylacteries' are so called because, in the past they were worn during daylight hours, but today they are only worn during morning prayers, but not on Shabbes. From the root f.l.l. 'to pray' of uncertain origin. (All according to Klein. As inselpeter mentioned there are some minor differences in how they are worn or tied, but usually one of the left arm above the elbow (at heart height) and the other on the forehead (above the hairline). Ashkenazic Jews end with the straps on the arm being tied around the palm and then the middle finger three times to symbolize the letter shin. If you google tefillin, you'll find plenty of information in the first couple of pages from different points of view. There's some nice pictures here on tying the tefillin. Greek phulakterion means 'amulet' and is related to the verb fulasso 'to guard, watch, defend'.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Quote:
I used to "lay tefillin" a while before and after my bar-mitzvah. But no religion-talks right?? *ducks under a foxhole*
We can talk about the language of religion, just no "you're stupid because your heresies aren't the same as my heresies."
So what does it mean "lay tefillin"?
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Tfillin comes from an Aramaic word, and phylactery from a Greek one. Jews have been speaking all kinds of languages since Hebrew stopped being spoken about 2500 years ago. (It was revived in the late 19th century.) They spoke Aramaic for quite a while (reason why a lot of the Talmud is in that language, and the Targum is entirely) and they also spoke a lot of Koine Greek (which is how the Septuagint came to be written in that language. Later they spoke a Romance language, from which Ladino, and in other parts of Europe a Germanic language, from which Yiddish. Not to mention German, Polish, Russian, Romanian, Hungarian, Arabic, Farsi, etc. As for which word English-speaking, observant Jews use, you could go to shul and find out, but I've noticed them using the word tfillin, though they usually know what a phylactery is.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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So what does it mean "lay tefillin"?
It means to use tefillin in the religious practice. But for the record I'm only Jew by roots, I don't practice the religion or any other.
zmjezhd, are you a philologist/linguist/teacher/professor? I have a feeling it's not just a hobby for you. (you know too much  )
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Of course there is more than one kind of phylactery!
No doubt, the clothe 'scapulas' i wore as a child would qualify. these were small peices of cloth, made into pouches, and in these pouches, prayers printed (on other cloth) the pouches were brown wool felt, the prayers on fine white linen. there were 2 pockets, 0ne for the chest, one for the back, and the they were connected by narrow brown ribbons.
the common belief is, prayer doesn't change things, prayer (or the act of praying) changes people and people change things (or idea about things, and then the things themselves.
but Harvard medical school did a research study, and had people 'pray' for molds and bacteria growing in petri dishes, and they one that were prayed for actually were more robust and lived longer that other mold and bacteria in the same storage area.
so who knows? mane wearing (as apposed to saying) prayers works too. (and if christans (well, catholics!) and jews do it, maybe other religious groups do it too?
(many religions do require special garments, (judism, mormanism, cathsolism(especally for nuns and priests) could these also be considered phylacteries?
and since religious scapula's meet all the 'requirements' of being a phylactery, i guess there are 'collections' of them!
Last edited by of troy; 11/24/2005 3:41 PM.
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Quoth Faldage: We can talk about the language of religion, just no "you're stupid because your heresies aren't the same as my heresies."
This is so great that I have put it in a little folder where I keep ideas on which to build sermons. If I am feeling really magnanimous (and honourable) when I finally use it, I'll give Faldage credit for the germ of the notion.
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Quote:
Quoth Faldage: We can talk about the language of religion, just no "you're stupid because your heresies aren't the same as my heresies."
This is so great that I have put it in a little folder where I keep ideas on which to build sermons. If I am feeling really magnanimous (and honourable) when I finally use it, I'll give Faldage credit for the germ of the notion.
Well you'd better - as I understand it, your boss has a fairly comprehensive employee surveillance system, na?
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> comprehensive employee surveillance system to say naught about the employee rewards and diosciplinary procedure... [/foxhole] 
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Pooh-Bah
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Since it is my opening "no" that seems to have upset you, I would only point out that you asked a yes or no question. Yes, there are other, essential, differences, but why bother?
Last edited by inselpeter; 12/01/2005 1:53 PM.
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Quote:
Quote:
No. Moreover, 'where' is not a question that enters the picture at all. The straps which bind the tefillin to the head or arm are different, so that each one in a set of two is worn only on the head or only on the arm [...] there isn't any leeway about where they are worn.
My question was about the tefillin/phylactery, not the straps, supposing, as you seem to, that these are to be regarded as separate objects.
Besides which, in stating that the tefillin may be worn "only" on the head or "only" on the arm you are not doing your point justice. What you mean to say is that the tefillin may be worn either on the head or arm, in which case "where" does potentially enter the picture especially when you consider that the differentiating attribute of the anklet and the bracelet -- otherwise being two identical ornamental hoops -- is where on the body they are worn.
Quote:
Phylactery is, I believe, of greek derivation, and tefillin of Hebrew.
What makes you think I couldn't find -- hadn't found -- these etymologies in whatever dictionary happened to be in reach? My question was simply : Is it a phylactery or a tefillin?
And consider :
tefillin
plural noun
collective term for Jewish phylacteries.
ORIGIN from Aramaic tepillin ‘prayers.’
and for phylactery :
phylactery
noun ( pl. -teries)
a small leather box containing Hebrew texts on vellum, worn by Jewish men at morning prayer as a reminder to keep the law.
phylactery
ORIGIN late Middle English : via late Latin from Greek phulakt?rion ‘amulet,’ from phulassein ‘to guard.’
Quote:
The Greek is the more accurate
My first thought was that they were synonyms, in which instance your instruction to choose a term according to a suppositious assessment of the tenability of their respective etymologies would hold; however, the definition for "tefillin" as "a collective term for Jewish phylacteries" suggests that there is more than one kind of phylactery; otherwise, why should there be a collective term for a single object?
Your tone of admonitory didacticism was promising, but ultimately leaves my question unanswered.
I hadn't looked at this thread until now. I see the ad hominen attacks again. Wanna give it a rest and discuss words/language in a courteous way, HL? We're not idiots. Pretend it's a cocktail party without the cocktails. Would you address someone in person the way you are cyberly addressing people here?
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Quote:
I hadn't looked at this thread until now. I see the ad hominen attacks again. Wanna give it a rest and discuss words/language in a courteous way, HL? We're not idiots. Pretend it's a cocktail party without the cocktails. Would you address someone in person the way you are cyberly addressing people here?
Yawn.
Read my post again. Whatever you choose to make of my tone, I am still discussing the interpretation of phylactery.
It is your post that has broken free of a discussion of words into sanctimonious admonishment.
Summation: The accuser's false accusation commits the very offence it falsely accuses the falsely accused of.
Verdict: In the Homo Loquens' Taxonomy of Intelligence, the prosecutrix, yclept Anastrophic, in consequence of pressing false charges, hilarious self contradiction, misspelling ad hominem and generally just not knowing how to distinguish between jocose banter and an actual ad hominem argument, is to be assigned a temporary place among the lower order of Idiota, genus Homo Sententia Ineptus, pending contradistinction by contra-suggestible counteraction.
Last edited by Homo Loquens; 12/03/2005 11:08 AM.
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PLEASE stop it. HL, I've been privately and publicly working to get these bad feelings defused, but for God's sake, man, you are not helping at all.
We went through a large dose of crap here recently, and I think I speak for all of us when I say we don't want it again.
I think you have a lot to offer, but not when you call people idiots and accuse them of ineptness.
And this goes for ALL of you people who have taken up the gauntlet. If you can't get along, get along down the cyber-road to somewhere else.
I and most of us come here for entertainment, enlightenment, education, and certainly not least, camaraderie. I went away once before during the late unpleasantness, and I don't want to go away again. I LIKE it here, but not when people aren't getting along.
Here's what all of you need to do. If you cannot, due to the size of your ego or an unwillingness to say you might just possibly be in the wrong, or for whatever other reason, issue a public apology, which is preferred, sendto those whom you have offended a PM with a private apology.
TEd
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Quote:
[...] generally just not knowing how to distinguish between JOCOSE BANTER and an actual ad hominem argument [...]
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So I made a typo. I spelled hominem right the first time I brought this up. Hope I won't have to bring it up any more. Meanwhile, it's An naStrophic, yes, two Ns. What's your drink? On me. (TEd, you're a gem.  )
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Banterwise, it seems the result of failing to amuse is to offend. I'll try not to play so fast and loose with the banter.
Regards,
HL.
Last edited by Homo Loquens; 12/03/2005 3:55 PM.
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