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oy! Quote:
While descriptivists and other such laissez-faire linguists are content to allow the misconception to fall into the vernacular, it cannot be denied that logic and philosophy stand to lose an important conceptual label should the meaning of BTQ become diluted to the point that we must constantly distinguish between the traditional usage and the erroneous "modern" usage. This is why we fight.
formerly known as etaoin...
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I was thinking abou this in my lazy fairy kind of way the other day, when I heard a tv journalist from somewhere else use it in the "wrong" way. It reinforced my belief that Humpty Dumpty had it right all those years ago - words mean whatever enough people say they mean. Maybe Dodgson's relaxed, descriptivist attitude to language was a reaction to his work as a mathematician, but whatever the reason, he certainly supplied me with a nice motto.
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formerly known as etaoin...
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Quote:
you might gotta like this though:
Bob's Quick Guide to the Apostrophe, You Idiots
Great cartoon. The misuse of apostrophe's was one of the last things to get my prescriptivist hackles' up, but eventually I decided theres just not enough time to waste getting hung up on stuff like that. Im much happier for have made the break, Id say.
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surfing from there brought me to this: http://refdesk.com/is that on your list, Max?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Quote:
surfing from there brought me to this:
http://refdesk.com/
is that on your list, Max?
yup.
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formerly known as etaoin...
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Quote:
While descriptivists and other such laissez-faire linguists are content to allow the misconception to fall into the vernacular, it cannot be denied that logic and philosophy stand to lose an important conceptual label should the meaning of BTQ become diluted to the point that we must constantly distinguish between the traditional usage and the erroneous "modern" usage. This is why we fight.
Looks like a classic example of petitio principii to me.
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And with just a soupçon of ad hominem thrown in. The real problem with the term begging the question is that it is a poor translation at best.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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"...BTQ abuse..."  It kinda reminds me of PDQ Bach.
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It's a winless war guys. The water's up to our necks and it's quickly rising over our chins in an effort to drown out our protests.
I can usually get away with explaining some grammatical point or another, but people are firm in their belief that they are using begging the question correctly, and there is no way explaining the root of the words makes a lick of difference to them.
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OH, HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAX!! Kisses!!
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Quote:
It's a winless war guys. The water's up to our necks and it's quickly rising over our chins in an effort to drown out our protests.
in kneejerk defense of my original post, I wasn't looking to start the BTQ debate again, but merely asking the musical question "is there a website for everything?"
-joe (tra-la) bfstplk
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Googlewhacking should give you the answer. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hey, bel, lovely to see you again! How was the trip? I sure missed getting to see you. 
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journeyman
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>"is there a website for everything?" of course there is you farkakte gong farmer!
The Lone Haranguer
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Quote:
I wasn't looking to start the BTQ debate again
sorry, my bad.
formerly known as etaoin...
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I do have a word question having to do with a point on the website though....
They say that petitio principii was translated into English in the 16th century as "beg the question" and that today we understand "beg" to mean "ask", thus the whole confusion.
What exactly did "beg" mean in the 16th century?
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Hi Jackie. My Chicago trip was a very quick in-and-out this year. I flew in on the Monday morning and flew out Tuesday at noon. Didn't get to see anybody.
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Latin petitio principii is a calque for Greek en archei aiteisthai. Both have a meaning closer to 'request for the beginning' than to 'begging the question'. That's what I meant earlier by poor translation. Because both beg and question have common meanings in English, most speakers who are unaware of this logical term from Aristotle have reanlyzed the phrase according to English. Greek aiteo 'to beg, ask' has a specialized meaning of 'to assume, postulate' in Aristotle. Latin principium means 'beginning, commencement'. I'd use petitio principii for the logical term and let begging the question go its own sweet way.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Huh. Well thanks zmj.
See, that's why I love this place...you can learn something every time you pop in for a visit.
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Quote:
Huh. Well thanks zmj.
See, that's why I love this place...you can learn something every time you pop in for a visit.
you jes' larning that, Miss Bel?
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No, no, I learned that Tuesday. 
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