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In reply to:
...Hindi, which has a gender neutral singular pronoun
So does English. Please splain the difference, dear Max.
Sorry, ASp. I should have added "for use when speaking of people". While in English, one would never use "it" of a person without risking giving offence, and one would not use "one" without risking being thouight a pompous twat, in Hindi, "voh" is the standard pronoun for he/she/it.
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Thanks for the explanation Max, mon chou, but it was our mademoiselle ASp that asked the question. Though if I am to be mistaken for someone, I think I'd be quite happy to be mistaken for her.
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>>manned/umanned<< Unattended was also the first thing that popped into my mind (thanks, bel  ) in that particular instance. However, I really never contemplated the dilemma of manned/umanned before. Because, I guess, it's one of those terms and phrases that have reached beyond their original genderism to become, in effect, agenderal, if you will. And remember..."going postal" is always gender neutral. 
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Quote:
one of those terms and phrases that have reached beyond their original genderism to become, in effect, agenderal, if you will.
Back when gender meant something in English and gender had yet to become conflated with sex, man and woman were both masculine and wife, which meant "woman" at the time, was neuter.
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Pooh-Bah
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> Back when gender meant something in English and gender had yet to become conflated with sex <
I suppose that happened when "sex" became uncomfortable?
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"No, no, you misunderstand me. I was thinking of unmanned here equalling undeflowered." - Bingley I agree, Bringly, otherwise the sentence has little meaning. But I disagree, inselpeter, if you compromise meaning so as to expand your bias then you become a party to deception. To "man" is, as used, asexual...as in "the children are manning the pumps." Or "the pumps are manned by women." Or, "Shirley, quick, man the pumps, the waters they are arising." These usages have no disparaging connotation, except to silly men and silly women. What? You want language to effect social changes at the sacrifice of an accurate transfer of useful meaning? I thought not!
Last edited by themilum; 10/12/2005 11:24 PM.
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Quote:
I thought not!
Well, if I were a woperson I would be highly dudgeonated by being called a man. 
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Pooh-Bah
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>>But I disagree, Inselpeter<<
Eh?
Last edited by inselpeter; 10/13/2005 2:20 AM.
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Ah dear Faldage, you of all people would hardly be dudgeonated if you were a woeperson and had the good fortune to be called a "man".
As for myself I know three or five woepersons and not one has ever felt anything but glee at being called "master" or "man".
__________________________________________________________________
man/ verb: take charge of a certain job; occupy a certain work place (Example: "Mrs. Smith manned the reception desk in the morning"
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"But many readers do. If the object is to communicate, it is wise not to alienate them. This is not to endorse an over-indulgence in pcese, but considerations of gender do not obscure and, in fact, have merit."Gee whiz, inselpeter, mine was but a mild disagreement. 
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yeah, but, themilum, years ago, (but still allegedly part of the enlightened age) when i worked as a service technician, i was told "its a man job" (it required the use of tools) and a manager (in a one to one conversation, so it would have been a case of he said/she said told me i was 'depriving a man of job' by doing what i was doing.
'manpower' was how the work force was 'averaged'.
it was a job. any woman who was interested would have been quite capable of doing it. (yeah, you did occationally have to move 60 lbs parts, (or as i said, a 6 year old, and the parts didn't kick and scream))
supposedly "neutral terms' like mailman or manpower, or manned station are anything but neutral if you are a woman working in a field or occupation that is still largely one considered to be a man's job.
changing language is start to changing thinking.
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but isn't this really an example of overindulgence?? after all, *who is it that's being disparaged in saying that the border station is unmanned? in the final analysis there's no one there. -joe (I must hang around with ron o. too much) 
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Pooh-Bah
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Who are you talking to? he said in a friendly tone of type. I just didn't know what you were disagreeing *with. Anyway, as far as *what you were disagreeing with goes, you may disagree with me, but I don't disagree with you. Nor do I think my statement suggests I do.
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Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
but isn't this really an example of overindulgence??
after all, *who is it that's being disparaged in saying that the border station is unmanned?
in the final analysis there's no one there.
-joe (I must hang around with ron o. too much)
You are really pretty funny today.
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Quote:
Quote:
but isn't this really an example of overindulgence??
after all, *who is it that's being disparaged in saying that the border station is unmanned?
in the final analysis there's no one there.
-joe (I must hang around with ron o. too much)
You are really pretty funny today.
I *agree. And he's using emoticons! Who'da thunk?
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Well, if I were a woperson I would be highly dudgeonated by being called a man.
Well, if I were a dungeon I'd be highly insulted by a woperson being called dungeonated. so there
Last edited by WhitmanO'Neill; 10/14/2005 12:12 AM.
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, if I were a woperson I would be highly dudgeonated by being called a man.
Well, if I were a dungeon I'd be highly insulted by a woperson being called dungeonated. so there
And Idowanna be a woperson in the first place. I wanna be a joyperson!
PS Is it my imagination or is white text really invisible on this board, unless you highlight it? Or is it just my monitor?
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is white text really invisible on this board Prolly has to do with the color scheme you've selected, Sweet Thing. Maybe?
EDIT: I'm currently using desert classic (I think); I can tell that something is there, but I sure can't read it without highlighting it.
EDIT #2: Hoo boy, it shows up loud and clear in "black and blue"!
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Well, if I were a woperson I would be highly dudgeonated by being called a man.
Well, if I were a dungeon I'd be highly insulted by a woperson being called dungeonated. so there
And Idowanna be a woperson in the first place. I wanna be a joyperson!
Well, wofa, unfortunately you already are a woperson.
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Pooh-Bah
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Personally I would not be offended by someone thinking I was male (unless they could actually see me at the time.) In fact a lot of people assumed that "Zed" was a male sounding name when I first arrived on the board. I am not insulted by "masculin" terms like manned but I do think that truly gender neutral terms can help to (slowly) change attitudes. I dislike gender screwy terms like woperson and I am offended when PC terms are carefully used to cover up continued actual discrimination. eg when a business changes from having a Chairman to having a Chairperson with a hidden resolve never to have a female chairperson.
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