#14563
01/08/2001 12:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Hello PaulB. I remember wearing a liberty bodice too when I was very young (early sixties). It was warm and worn as well as a vest in the winter, I remember it being a light brown or dark cream. I found a couple of websites which said that it was fleecy and designed to keep one warm. I think it was made predominantly for girls. I've seen a couple that were more like corsets but I don't remember it having any "bones". http://removedhttp://www.harboro.ndirect.co.uk/harboro.htmFoornote: I've just looked at the first website that I had listed again, following Jackie's post (next one down). I had searched on "liberty bodice" - and only looked at the information given about where they were made. I've decided that it is a distinctly dodgy site, so I've amended my post and removed the reference.
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#14564
01/08/2001 4:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
I can't stand it, I can't stand it! My God! Jo, that first website! My God! The cruelty! Did you, did you, go to the home page and read, and read, that first letter?
That one, from that God-awful sadist who, who, of all things, is a teacher?? To say nothing of those "Three Letters From School". That unspeakable
wretch, that woman, that first one--forced her
nephew into complete, total, and utter humiliation--subjected him to it for a full half-hour--and then, and then, even more unbelievably, bragged about it!!
Oh! Oh! Why, oh why, do adults so often act as though
might is right, when it comes to dealing with children??
That woman has NO CLUE as to what she taught that child;
that goes for all the other sadistic teachers/parents/parent substitutes, too. What a child learns from that kind of treatment is, first, fear.
Obedience out of fear is not what a child should be raised by. That child learned that he could be forced to do something. He learned nothing about realistic expectations, and discipline in its classical sense: that is, why certain things are and are not done. It is also VERY likely that he learned to be vengeful--I doubt that this is what that...that...ooh!...person had in mind! A beloved friend told me of being forced into a humiliating situation in front of his class--it still haunted him three decades later. The feelings of powerlessness cause indescribable harm.
Well, now you have all seen me in pretty much full rant.
It's going to take me a while to get over those letters.
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#14565
01/08/2001 10:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
My God! Jo, that first website! My God!
I didn't even get to see it. . .
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#14566
01/08/2001 10:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Well Jazzo, I could say ... "you just should have got there quicker" but then there is no way that I would say something like that!
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#14567
01/08/2001 10:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
I didn't even get to see it. . .
Sweetie, it was about adults deciding to punish schoolboys
by making them wear girls' clothes in front of people. No
major deal--unless you were the boy. But I strongly imagine that the classmates were horribly uncomfortable as well, underneath the laughter they knew the adult expected.
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#14568
01/08/2001 11:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
How old were these children? I'd say the severity of the "child abuse" depends on the age of the children. In Shakespeare's time, men practically dressed like women anyway, and I think I can safely say that I know people my age would wear a dress to school just because they thought it was amusing
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#14569
01/08/2001 11:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
JazzOctopus remarkedHow old were these children? I'd say the severity of the "child abuse" depends on the age of the children. In Shakespeare's time, men practically dressed like women anyway, and I think I can safely say that I know people my age would wear a dress to school just because they thought it was amusing
Ay, there's the rub, Jazz. What makes it abusive is the element of compulsion, as punishment. If someone wants to engage in a little cross-dressing, that's obviously very different from being forced to do so as an act of public humiliation.
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#14570
01/09/2001 8:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
>a little cross-dressing
On a second read I thought it was more of, lets say, a .. fantasy site, that's why I removed the link. Whoever put it there deserved (and probably got) a good spanking.
Nuf said?
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#14571
01/09/2001 9:01 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Here's another discussion of "liberty bodices". I'd be careful of searching on this item, the more modern versions seem to have something to do with bondage! I don't remember it too well as I was quite young. I think it was suggested to my parents as I suffered from bronchitis and any extra layers (in the cold winters before central heating) were thought to be good. I don't remember the bit to attach the woolly stockings and I don't suppose Paul wore them either! --- Here's the reference: "I've suddenly recalled a somewhat peculiar girls' undergarment, which was called a liberty bodice. I know I had at least one in my undies collection, during early post-war years, but all I vaguely remember about it was that it was worn over the vest, was a lot shorter than a vest, had rubber buttons up the front, and a suspender-like gizmo dangling at the sides, at about the waistline, with a rubber button at the end, as though to anchor it to something (goodness knows what). I remember it as being miserably uncomfortable to wear. but perhaps the only ones I had were a size too small for me. I never wore one consistently, but it was there in the drawer and now and again I was persuaded to give it another chance. Eventually they disappeared." http://homepages.pavilion.co.uk/enigma/evac17.htm---
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#14572
01/09/2001 1:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004 |
All this discussion of 'liberty bodices' throws my mind back (only about 4 years or so) when the V&A had a great exhibition on British fashion through the years. (I bought the book for my mother, who is something of a seamstress, but I went to the exhibition out of sheer fascination anyway - even though I'm not into fashion at all.) One of the loveliest (oh what a twee word) was the 'Liberty suit', a tweedy, thick woollen construction that I wished existed today - I'd love to wear something of the slightly moth-eaten-looking brown shade. I believe the 'Liberty' range was used to designate a series of clothes made rather cheaply in the rationing era (WW2 and just after)? Can anyone confirm this? (No Google matches...)
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#14573
01/09/2001 2:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Shanks, your thoughts about "liberty" line of clothing being something for the war effort reminded me about an odd anomaly-- women's shirts and wars-- Women skirts get shorter during times of war. During WWII, (and WWI) skirts got shorter and shorter- after the end of the war-- Dior "New Look" dictated almost ankle length skirts (1947) During the US Vietnam conflict-- Miniskirt where the rage. With extended "peace"-- women are once again wearing longer and longer skirts.
This anomaly is pretty long standing-- woman clothing get sheerer, or shorter, or deeper necklines-- in some ways more revealing than before or after the time of war.
There is a mountain of speculation as to why, one theory is, when women perceive a shortage of men, they wear more revealing clothing... the better to attract one of the few remaining men. During peace-- no shortage of men, not as much need to attract.. skirts are and clothing in general is less revealing.. (with exceptions like Jennifer Lopez)
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#14574
01/09/2001 4:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Wartime clothing
You don't think it has to do with saving material in wartime? In the US, prior to WWII, most men's suits were 3-piece (with vest), pleated trousers with cuffs and fairly generously cut. Once the war started, there were no more vests (they went out of fashion until the late 60's), trousers were plain, no pleats or cuffs, and suits were cut narrower. After the war, the fashion in men's suits was those horrible looking hugely cut suits, mostly double-breasted, that you see in old pictures or newsreels.
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#14575
01/09/2001 6:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 130
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 130 |
Anyone familiar with the "Zoot Suit Riots" in California during the Second World War? Black kids, Latinos and white hipsters wearing floppy, exaggerated clothing were regularly set upon by military types. Apparently they thought their dress was un-American and an affront to the war effort and austerity programs.
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#14576
01/09/2001 7:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Well, maybe--only there was no austerity during the VN war– when mini skirts were the rage. And the style (short lived) during the Napoleonic wars was for women to wear gauze dresses, made even sheerer by wearing them wet-- the 1800's idea of a wet t-shirt contest. Unfortunately, this was done in cold, damp England-- and women found fashion had its price-- pneumonia! Some PM lost his wife to pneumonia after she went to some ball in one of these fashionable gowns..
I don't think women wore gauze for austerity...
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#14577
01/09/2001 8:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
gauze dresses
O matchlessly beautiful one, you are flitting around what many would say is a true point, but I believe you are way off in this instance. During the Napoleonic War period, classical, esp. Roman, styles were all the rage (see pictures by Ingres and J.L David) and the gauze dresses were an attempt to imitate the filmy clothing shown on classical statues (genuine representations) and on paintings (putative representations).
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#14578
01/18/2001 1:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
Well, I think that most Canadians that you might ask would define a mukluk as something like a moccasin, but built like a boot...it goes higher up the leg, and is obviously warmer, is made of leather, has fur on it, sometimes tassels, and is worn in the wintertime. Then I checked my Oxford Dictionary of Canadian English (I don't know the cute abbreviation for this) and it agrees with me (of course, it's at home, I'm at school, so I can't give the word-for-word definition). Also my husband had the same definition for it, when I asked him.
People actually wear these things, not just up north, but in the big cities - though not often, and generally for cultural events (such as the Festival du Voyageur, a Francophone festival which takes place in Winnipeg every February)! My mother even had a pair stashed in the basement, which I never was anyone wear because there was a hole in one of them.
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