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Carpal Tunnel
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> we all need to periodically test our alertness to changing social mores reflected in the language, to avoid our individual usage being left stranded like jetsam at some previous high-water mark. As TEd, showed, it's possible we get a real surprise now and again, and may have caused unnecessary offence in the interim. well said. I think the mutual admiration society thing is going very well, don't you? 
formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Of course, where I live now, there are almost no people of Asiatic origin. It's almost safe to say the only Oriental thing around here is kudzu, and that ain't too popular.
TEd
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yes, sorry TEd, I didn't mean to connect that suggestion about causing offence with your surprise at the difference of views recorded in the usage notes. You make a valid point anyway - usage varies by region and population differences. I guess we just need to try and be aware of this.
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Pooh-Bah
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>>small brain and body odor
But the offensiveness of racial classifications by 'non-whiteness' derives from the historical privilege of 'whites,' and this is inherent in their coinage. Similarly, the Eurocentic perspective inherent in 'Oriental' priviliges the Occident.
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veteran
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My wife, a U.S. citizen, but born and raised most of her life in PRC, has always used the term "orinental" (sic) to describe herself and other asian peoples.
I once mentioned to her that a lot of people think that 'asian' is what should be used and 'oriental' is considered rude - and by some people racist. Her immediate response was "Who say dat? Dat stupid!"
There are a LOT of asian people who consider using the term 'oriental' perfectly natural - and I've known at least one person (korean male) who DEMANDED to be called an oriental and NOT an asian.
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It may be 'important' to consider how a word feels to a recipient, but not being a mind-reader doesn't make the 'offender' a racist.
k
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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and I love the image of trying to unring a bell
*heh* I was thinking just the other day that there must be quite a few terms and phrases which are part of the vernacular of the law which would be alien to the rest of the world, and considered that there were probably more than a few which I no longer even realized were unique to the profession.
And now, we see one, I think.
What are some other, Father Steve? The oft-used bundle of sticks, perhaps?
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Carpal Tunnel
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OP
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The problem with trying to answer a question such as "what phrases are unique to the law?" is that one who uses them all them time in likely unaware that they are unique. It is a bit like, when I visit an Episcopal congregation for the first time to celebrate the mass there as a visiting priest and I ask the folks "What do you do here that is strange?", they look at me and assure me that they do nothing strange at all. I have to discover their liturgical oddities in the midst of the Eucharist because they are not at all strange to those who do them constantly.
P.S. I did rather enjoy one fellow who was accused of drunk driving. A civilian witness testified that the accused drove his vehicle from its proper lane of travel over a strip dividing the lanes into two directions, thereby entered the on-coming lane. The defendant then testifed, with vehemence, "I did not cross the medium." I imprudently quipped, "That's good, because they can change your future, I hear."
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Carpal Tunnel
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Thanks, FF. I've heard the same thing from a couple of my friends. "Asain", they say, is a foolisly inaccurate grouping with no specificity... especially since there are many varied and solidified forms of culture and philosophy. At least "Oriental" focuses them to be from the "Far East". They also say that Oriental is "their" word, but I'm not sure what is meant by that.
*******
I think the next time someone describes me as white I am going to protest that I am not white, I'm sorta pink with some farmer tan overtones.
Hey, TEd. I currently say that everytime someone says so (without the 'farmers tan' part). The same with any form I fill out that asks the question of what race I'm *in. I'm not in a race and my ethnicity isn't white. "Other" is my usual choice if available, and if it isn't I'll usually not give an answer.
I believe one way to stop formulating racist ideals is to stop asking questions that force inherently racist answers... and even better to not validate some questions with an answer.
Hey, Father Steve, I wonder if this would "fly well" in (your) court: "I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it would incriminate me (force me to validate racism - or - incriminate me as a racist).
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Carpal Tunnel
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At least "Oriental" focuses them to be from the "Far East".Been to the University of Chicago's Oriental Institute lately? http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/default.html
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