|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
Dear Elizabeth ~
1. Bless you. There are far too few prescriptivists represented on this board, we are a sorely denigrated and ridiculed minority -- probably entitled to some sort of federal protection -- and another person ready to stand up for the decent and proper use of the language is always welcome.
2. I find "pled" and "pleaded" used interchangeably in the briefing which comes before me, as well as in the published appellate reports which I read.
3. When a lawyer says "I would like to make a motion," I often interrupt to ask "What's holding you back?" The poor things then look so confused.
4. Parliamentary procedure is no longer taught in the same way that Latin is no longer taught. Both -- which tend toward precision of thought and utterance -- are despised because slop -- sloppy thinking and sloppy expression -- is the order of the day.
5. I will be teaching a class this Saturday for newly-elected delegates to the diocesan convention of the Episcopal Church. In it, I will attempt to explain the rudiments of the parliamentary procedure which we use. Some of the class will become angry at some point in the session, as they realize that the rules of decision constrain them, when they want to be free, free, free.
6. Please never leave the board. It already gets kinda lonely here, from time to time.
Father Steve
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
> kinda lonely here But Father Steve, your prescriptions are always more welcome than a doctor's pills! Suggestions on form of language based on sense, clarity, and euphony will rarely divide those with a love of language, I suspect. What grates on those who love language but realise it is a fluid expression of people's thoughts and feelings is to hear those prescriptivists at work who would try to enforce arbitrary 'rules', which are often founded on a completely irrational or mistaken analysis of how language has been formed. It is also notable that many prescriptivists are actually complaining about changes in their society about which they feel angry or upset, rather than about language per se. I am indebted to Richard H at the w/o board for pointing out this interesting discussion with Geoff Pullen, who imho gets this balance of accurate description (which includes noting that certain forms of language are markers of social groupings and so on) about right: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/ling/stories/s546929.htm
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 500
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 500 |
I have no intention of leaving this board! I love hangin' out with other people who like discussing language. And it's wonderful to have a prescriptivist or two besides myself - I sometimes feel like the lone voice in favour of those horrible, rigid rules. Who else here loves "Eats, Shoots and Leaves"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 500
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 500 |
It is also notable that many prescriptivists are actually complaining about changes in their society about which they feel angry or upset, rather than about language per se.
Hmm, I DO think that's part of it. I resent being spoken of (or to) as though I were a computer. ("Can you generate that number for me? Can I get hard copy of that?") I will 'fess up to having a hate-hate relationship with computers, as one was the Other Woman in my first marriage.
Jargon (language peculiar to a trade) does not belong outside its proper venue. If you want to "access" a file on your computer, I will grit my teeth and let you. If you want to "access" my house, I will be waiting with a frying pan in hand. I don't use the jargon of my trade (art) on people, because I don't feel it's respectful - it's not appropriate to apply it to people and it's not kind or polite to speak a foreign language to someone who may not understand it.
I get tired of non-prescriptivists whose catch-all argument is that English is a living language. This usually means that they can't be bothered to check on the difference between "imply" and "infer" (or "flaunt" and "flout") and figure they're interchangeable.
The only way you can flaunt the law is by waving a judge around.
And a rural "rowt" is a bunch of farmers retreating in a disorderly fashion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
waving a judge around Elizabeth! Are you saying we should give Father Steve a fling??  Frying pan, hmm? Interesting choice of weapon...which I gather it is, since if you were welcoming the accesser the pan would be on the stove, surely?  'Fraid I got lost on that rowt, though. Don't recall seeing the word before.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<I will 'fess up to having a hate-hate relationship with computers>> This is a wonderful statement! lol! (Reminds me of my favorite line from the admittedly not dialog-rich 2001 Etc., "I think I deserve an answer to that question, Dave." <<The only way you can flaunt the law is by waving a judge around.>> -- And then, only sometimes. <<And a rural "rowt" is a bunch of farmers retreating in a disorderly fashion.>> Shades of the American Revolution. *** But these things are not all at the extremes, and even Lynn Truss's tongue was often found in cheek, although, unlike Wendy's fingers, this did not diminish sales.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 48
newbie
|
|
OP
newbie
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 48 |
Many thanks to all who were kind enough to respond to my question. Should I use either spelling incorrectly in the future, I shall plead not guilty by reason of insanity, and I feel sure no one will dispute it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 500
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 500 |
Father Steve might love a fling!
"rowt" is how many people pronounce "route". Living in a border area, I've noticed that the Americans I know seem never to say "root" for "route", but do say "rowt"; I find it deplorable that this is spreading, even to the CBC. A rural route is a mail delivery district. A rural rout is a bunch of farmers retreating in a disorderly fashion. I do not live on a rural rout.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 48
newbie
|
|
OP
newbie
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 48 |
There's a country song, popular in Ohio and Northern Kentucky several years ago, which alluded to the necessity of leaving Kentucky in favor of Ohio in order to find employment. The song title referred to the Three Rs, as taught in Northern Kentucky schools, as "Readin', Ritin', and Route 23" -- pronounced "rowt".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
...I find it deplorable that this is spreading...
Yep, my namesake, you are a true prescriptivist! I say "root," but I don't understand what's "deplorable" about the other pronunciation. Language happens. [awaiting slings and arrows]
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,580
Members9,187
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
668
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
