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Joined: Mar 2001
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
A friend sent the first chapter of a book he is writing, a history. I have questions on two terms he uses right away but, since I don't want to contact him before reading the chapter through and giving it some thought, I figured I'd run them by you.
The first is "sweet ship." The vessel, though then being used to carry passengers, ordinarilly freighted wine and thus, had no 'bilge stink.' I can't find the term ("sweet ship") elsewhere, and I wonder if this refers specifically to a vessel used to carry wine, or to any ship that carried a relatively 'aromatic' cargo.
The second is "steerage." He writes that, since it wasn't a passenger ship, most of the people aboard were crowded forward of steerage. Dictionary.com gives as one (perhaps the primary) definition the area of the ship housing the steering mechanism, so that the use is correct. However, on first reading the sentence seems 'misleading' to me, since, by the more common use, one would think it odd that 'space being limited most of the passengers were crowded foreward of steerage.' -- A recent thread discussed a sentence in which the reference of 'it' was unclear to some readers. Although most here seemed untroubled by the syntax, it seems to me, a sentence is usually -- but not always -- better when it requires only one reading. What does anyone else think about this use of 'steerage,' would you pause, or just keep reading?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
I've not heard the term "sweet ship" used because of the cargo - it is usually used to mean a "sound, well-sailing" ship - but I can assure you that even if the cargo was wine the bilges would still stink (assuming it was a sailing ship with unpowered bilge pumps). If wine escaped from the casks, it would soon turn rancid and, besides, it wasn't usually the cargo which found its way into the bilges. Modern metal-hulled ships don't have bilges in the way that sailing ships did. The approach to construction is different, and waste management is rather better ... Passenger ships in the mid-19th - mid-20th century used the term "steerage" to refer to crowded, cheap, dormitory-style passenger accommodation within the hull rather than in the cabins above the main deck. In fact for many years ships' accommodation was called either "cabin class" or "steerage class". No doubt the term arose from the use of the otherwise wasted space above the steering gear (in the older sailing ships) for low-priced accommodation, but it came to mean any accommodation below the main deck in the end. This link was quite interesting - I bookmarked it for some reason. Glad its come in useful ... http://www.balchinstitute.org/resources/destinationusa/html/body_introsteerage.htmlYour friend could have used the term "forward of steerage" to refer to the physical location of the accommodation he's writing about. I wouldn't call him on it; it seems to work.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
Thanks Cap.
***
Dr. Bill sent the link below, which correctly identifies the vessel, but leaves in doubt the specific meaning of "sweet." Not hugely important, just the kind of thing that hangs me up wondering on sometimes reading.
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
I think your link ended up so far below that it sunk.
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
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I definitely have come across the term 'sweet ship' in reference to a ship not possessing the normal bilge stink of sailing vessels, due to carriage of aromatic cargoes. Sorry I can't look up the reference just now - deep into research of revolutionay period French navy tonight! edit: this seems a similar example to what I've encountered in a novel: She was a sweet ship; and the air below, though stuffy, had no taste of bilge in it. ...http://www.blackmask.com/thatway/books171c/whitwo.htm
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<I think your link ended up so far below that it sunk.>> As did the woman reported on deck in the paragraph in question. Anyway, you made me laugh. Here is Bill's link: http://home.nc.rr.com/ncmayflower/Ship.htmas well as a later adendum: I read a long time ago that the wine ships
did not take cargoes (such as manure) that would have
really fouled the hold.which satisfies me. *** It's like Grand Central at 3 a.m. around here. The footsteps echo. The laughter comes like ghosts in ten seconds back: spirits of a past so recent interred. The outdoors beckons. Ah, but it's Saturday, and any musician will tell you, Saturday is amateur night. Quiet moon, the tide awakening. Good night, thieves and scoundrels; until we meet again, missed.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<< definitely have come across the term 'sweet ship' >>
Oh, Mav!
Oh, excellence!
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
the peking,one of the ships docked at the south street seaport museum, carried cargo's of guanno. (almost 75 years ago!)
the ships still stinks--it you go to the museum today.
now, i'll admit, the storage holds aren't all that well ventilated..but... its been a long times since the Peking carrried any cargo.. and she stinks. (no doubt why she was available for the museum.)
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
the peking,one of the ships docked at the south street seaport museum, carried cargo's of guanno. (almost 75 years ago!)
the ships still stinks--it you go to the museum today.
now, i'll admit, the storage holds aren't all that well ventilated..but... its been a long times since the Peking carrried any cargo.. and she stinks. (no doubt why she was available for the museum.)
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
> carried cargo's of guanno
Yes, I commented to Bill yesterday that it seemed obvious enough that if one had a vessel fit for transport of 'sweet' cargo, it would be only natural to keep it free of such a trade! ~ so it would become classified as a sweet ship, I guess.
Still can't remember which novel it was I saw this originally, btw - Bolitho, Hornblower...?
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