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A post in another thread has inspired me to pose this riddle:
What do Ebonics and The Great Eskimo Snow Hoax have in common?
Hint: The Rubik's Cube puzzle has a similar feature.
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What do Ebonics and The Great Eskimo Snow Hoax have in common? Um...both, though fairly widely spread through (U.S.) society, are myths?
Father Steve, your site had a word I haven't seen before: megaboss, as in megaboss number of words .
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Half the answer is tucked away, untrumpeted, in your link, FS.
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I don't know either, but I am adding a link because I thought it was interesting. I am seeing a bit of a trend toward using language/linguistics as a way of reinforcing difference/applying value judgments rather than finding commonality - but that has long been a pet peeve of mine, so I may be inventing connections... http://www.ucsc.edu/oncampus/currents/97-03-31/ebonics.htm
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mmm, I think you must be about on the money, Bridget. From FS's link:
"the supposedly mind-broadening anecdotes owe their appeal to a patronizing willingness to treat other psychologies as weird and exotic compared to our own..."
So is our very own weird and exotic Fong going to give us his answer?
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Seemed there was a lack of interest in this thread so I was willing to let it die, but, since you ask, Mav, the intended answer was that the public furor about each left out an important aspect of the original. In the case of the "Great Eskimo Snow Hoax" a brief history might be in order. The first stating of the Eskimo Snow Question had the number of words set at about four. This number started to blossom almost immediately getting up to at least 100 in some versions, but the important aspect that got lost very quickly was the contention that the Eskimos had no word that covered all aspects of what we know as snow. In the case of Ebonics the hoohah was all about worries that teachers were going to be teaching children substandard English. As one of the teachers in the PBS special Do You Speak American? said, "We don't have to teach them Ebonics; they already know all the grammar rules of Ebonics." The reason for bringing up the fact that they have a dialect with rules all its own was to be able to show how one could translate from AAL (African-American Language) to SWE (Standard Written [but it might as well be White] English).
As for pointing out differences being a "way of reinforcing difference/applying value judgments rather than finding commonality," I think that ignoring differences that are obviously there is more likely to act as a way of applying value judgements. If you are told that the way you speak is simply wrong you will feel more judged than if you discover that the way you speak does have rules but if you want a good-paying job you'd do better speaking with a different set of rules.
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> a different set of rules
Yes, that certainly makes sense to me too - it's the typical process of code-switching we all engage in (specially round here!)... The best favour we can do for kids is to teach them the underlying principles then leave the value judgments to them. Thanks for reviving an interesting topic.
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hmm. i wasn't much interested in this thread, but bridget you brought up an interesting idea..
I am seeing a bit of a trend toward using language/linguistics as a way of reinforcing difference/applying value judgments rather than finding commonality --
which i have been thinking about,--
namely how group of people always seperate themselves into us or them (in or outs, proper or improper..
and virtually idential groups often are the most virulent in making sure that 'false' members don't try to slip in and pass for one of them.
language is just one way of doing it, (and its been done before.. shibboliths have exist for ages.)
you are first a member of family (nucluar) then extended, then you join in the neighborhood, (via school or church or both) then, you join in a larger neighborhood in Jr HS or HS. University, is often in a different town or city, or you join the military, and ove the course of your lifetime, you extend and enlarge the groups you belong to.
or most people do. and people can do that because they can find some commonality.. (and yet, the continue, always judging,and finding small differences for why they are better. (and perhaps acknowledge some other better groups that they aspire to join!)
i think of Dicken's in the wonderful opening chapter of our mutual friend--as the woman striped and robs the dead man of his clothes, but hold her self higher than the criminals who knocked him out, and robbed him.
She didn't harm anyone, (what use does a dead man have for clothes?) and she could use them, (and the money she got, selling the used clothes) How high she placed her self above the other thugs and villiens..
how common the experience. (how great of dickens to find the lowest person we could admit to our society--just (barely) a step above a true criminal, but so low, on the 'normal social scale'...
ok, this idea has been running circles round my mind.. mostly i admit, in trying to understand the polital thinking of the people who elected the current administration, but in others ways people behave too
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In Episode 70 of the original Star Trek television series, entitled "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", two characters are Cheronians -- people who are black on one side and white on the other, with a line down the middle -- loathe one another. One thinks the other inferior; one thinks the other is an oppressor. It turns out that, while they appear identical to the crew of the Starship Enterprise, one is white on the left and the other is black on the left. Out of this difference, the Cheronians have constructed a basis for hating one another.
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Faldage, thanks for the explanation. Sadly, I suspect important aspects of the original are very commonly left out in the most vigorous public debates. What's that old saying about 'Don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument'???
Also, just to clarify, I didn't mean in any way to suggest that pointing out differences was a bad thing in itself. Simply that in both links I found some idea (not necessarily supported by the main point of view, but in there to be addressed) that 'different' implied 'inferior'. An idea I am passionately against!
And I'm 100% with you on letting kids (anyone, for that matter!) know that a particular set of rules may or may not help achieve a particular purpose as much as another set of rules. That was one of the interesting bits tucked away in my link: "African American college students in Chicago who received instruction concerning the contrasts between AAE and Standard English grammar showed improved Standard English writing skills as compared to a control group(9). And in Oakland itself it was found nearly 25 years ago that teachers who condemned AAE pronunciations and interpreted them as reading errors got the worst results in teaching black children to read, while teachers who used AAE creatively in the classroom got the best results(10)."
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I was interested in the thread Faldage, I just didn't know the link and was just waiting for you to give the answer.
Oh, and what is the Rubic's cube link?
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the Rubic's cube link
Getting the cube back to pristine condition after it has been jumbled up is only half the problem. The other half is, without taking it apart, figure out how the dang thing works, how you can move all those pieces about.
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