i don't know if there can be talk about freedom and liberty with out talk about hierarchies.

chickens have pecking order, and most primate societies, (includeing human ones) have 'alpha males'--and alpha females!--some primate society is matriarchal even!

the qualities that make an alpha male in human groups changes with the group. the best chess player in the chess club might be admired and looked to for leadership by the chess club, and be an alpha male in that group, but its not likely in the general scheme of HS society (or even adult society)that the championship chess player is a leader in more general way. the alpha qualities in small group (chess club) do not guarentee being an alpha male in a larger group.

most of us who post here, live in societies that are less hierarchalical then many societies in the world, and we tend to share all the freedoms and liberities that our leaders have. (but not the same press coverage, or security coverage, --or for most americans, the same health care coverage!) --we have alpha males, (and females) but they rule with a light hand(mostly).

in the war lord societies of afganistan, most members of the society have significantly fewer freedoms and liberties than the warlords, --same is true in saudi arabia, and in many other societies. even some that claim to be democratic.

i think it is somewhat in our nature as human beings, to form into hierarchies,(and at the same time to resent them!) and that organized anarchy, is a rare form for organization. it is a mode of opperation that has to be worked at, actively to achieve.

In many groups POWER is something that is over --admins (or what ever you want to call them) --have power over the group--who can register, who can post, how often they can post, what they can post, etc..

occationally group can form with POWER TO.

i have no POWER Over anyone here. but i have POWER TO:
to ignore
to respond
to agrue my point
to disagree
to agree
to post
or to not post.
No one (save Anu) has any more power here than anyone else.

everyone uses their power to achieve what they want.
some are more succesful, some are less successful.

but NO one has power over.

as a convention, we don't use vulgar words--the kind most newspapers still refuse to print. but vulgar words have been use in the past, (and will be, alas, in the future.)

i can't stop anyone from using them, and no one can stop me--except myself. I have the power to keep this place free of vulgar expressions. (and in general i use my power well, but i have been known to get angry, and careless in my behavior

I have total freedom of speech (or text, as it were) and total power to i say or or not say something.

but the civilized anarchy that exist here, only exist because if everyone acts in a similar way. (it becomes self supporting) its a very fragil society.

Most of us here bristle at the idea of organize POWER over us, and function well, with each of us using our POWER TO.

(for more thoughts on power, and how it is used in society, see marilyn french's Beyond Power--its not just about the femenist movement.)


my other obsession