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I received a question about something I posted: "That's something that none of us want to see." I was asked about using a singular or plural verb after 'none of us', and I typed first one thing and then another, and finally realized I was contradicting myself all over the place. Can someone give an explanation, please?
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I'm not an expert but I think "none" is the singular subject
obfuscated by the phrase "of us" so --"none(of us)wants to see.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
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Carpal Tunnel
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That none is the subject is true; whether it is singular (1) or plural (more than 1) is a little more complex. Strunk and White suggests singular unless the use of "none suggests more than one thing or person"
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Yes, what Faldage and Strunk and White said: it's problematic.
1. Five of my students were caught cheating on an exam yesterday. None were expelled.
Five and none are both plural in this example.
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Ummmm, yeah. And then there are the times when none = no one. As in, no(t) one of us wants this.
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Right, that's why I said it was problematic. It requires knowledge outside of the immediate sentence you're writing. How many is the word none referring to? I'd say it isn't the "of us" that's misleading you here, but the question of a plural antecedent. So, I'd also say that a rule like "none is always singular and takes the singular form of the verb" is hooey.
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Ah, yes! We hoped for definitive answers, but none were there. And then I looked in English, Spanish and Italian
dictionaries for a definition of "arigato" and none was there.
Say WHAT, Jackie?
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Jackie wa nihon go o hanashimashita
Arigato is Japanese for "thank you".
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And there are those who say it came from the Portuguese seafaring traders' obrigado.
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obrigado
Interesting. I'd not run across that etymology before. Looked around on the web and found both sides supported, but mainly by assertion and not facts. My questions: is how exactly is the Portuguese obrigado pronounced? Is the b a stop or a bilablial fricative as in Spanish? Same with the d: stop or dental fricative? Was the phonology of 16th Portuguese similar to today's? The real test would be to see if the noun arigatou 'thanks, tahnk you' and its corresponding verb arigatai 'to be grateful, be blessed' were used before the arrival of the Portuguese. The Japanese obviously don't know about it or acknowledge it, because they do not write arigatou in katakana as for example loanwords like besuboru 'baseball' or waishatsu '(men's) dress shirt (lit., white shirt)'. I would expecxt something like oburiga(d)o.
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Wow! It sure looked like Italian!
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Pooh-Bah
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Funny, I'd assumed that the Portugese came from the Japanese and not the other way around.
There are many Philipino people in my church and my undisciplined mind gets silly, Bushian mental pictures when we sing "Give tanks wit(h) a grateful heart!"
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Arigatai is written in a combination of kanji and hiragana, which would be appropriate for a native Japanese word. Tenpura, which supposedly came from the same era and thought by some to be from the Latin tempore, is written entirely in kanji. Do we know any Japanese words that unequivocally came from from a European language at about that time?
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old hand
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And then there are the times when none = no one. As in, no(t) one of us wants this. If not one of us wants this, then also: no two of us want this  . "none" is no more singular than plural. It's like division by zero in maths.
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Augh! Zero is what I meant! Not so much as a single one of us. Zero is singular!! [hanging on to sanity by a fingernail e]
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so, it wasn't so much help you was wanting then, but rather confirmation!?
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Okay; that one has officially pushed me over the edge: M, c'mere a minute...I have something for you. And wsieber too. <eg>
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