|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
take means to move the object away.
But one of the definitions of take (in Webster's) is: to convery, lead, carry, or cause to come along with one. So you could conceivably "take" something with you to go somewhere.
I'll use bring when I say something like "I'll bring the salad." but I'll use take when I say something like "don't forget to take your umbrella with you."
I don't understand your "introduce" pet peeve though TEd. I'm sure I'm misunderstanding something in your sentences.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Well, when I wrote that it was clear and unequivocal. Perhaps I spoke a bit too soon.
I think this is what I was getting at:
If I tell you that I will visit and have something with me, I would say, "I will bring it with me." I am carrying it towards you, the person to whom the sentence is addressed. If I am leaving your presence and have something with me, I would say, "I will take it with me." I am carrying it away from you, not towards you.
I would never say, "I am taking a gift for your party." Instead I would say, "I am bringing a gift for your party." This is of course assuming that you are going to be at your party.
I guess it's so deeply ingrained in me that I don't see anything controversial about take/bring.
As to the introducing thing, it is the matter of the direct and indirect objects of the word introduce. If I say I am going to introduce the audience to the president, that means I am going to say to the president, "Mr. President, I'd like you to meet the audience. That's Joe, That's Bob, over there's Matilda, Keeshawn's the one in the red dress."
But if I say I am going to introduce the president to the audience, I am saying, "Audience, this is the President."
Think of it this way, "Gin, I am going to introduce you to the concept that there indeed may be no concepts." I'm saying, "Concept, this is Gin." Absurd, of course.
But if I say, "I am going to introduce to you the concept that there indeed may be no concepts," the meaning of the sentence is quite clear.
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Hmmm. I see what you mean. Maybe the problem is with the use of "to you" in these circumstances. Wouldn’t it be better to say “Let me introduce the next President of the United States," or "Gin, I am going to introduce the concept that there indeed may be no concepts."
"Let me introduce to you the next President of the United States" does not roll off of the tongue easily. The "to you" seems unnecessary and clumsy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
see anything controversial about take/bring.
OK, Let's say you're at work and you're talking to a fellow member of your church about the church's dish-to-pass dinner next Wednesday evening. Do you say you're taking beans-n-franks or you're bringing beans-n-franks?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
"Lemme introduce to you the one and only Billy Shears".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Neither. I HATE beans-n-franks. I would say, "I am taking a main course," if I were not at the church when I spoke. If I happened to be at the church I would say, "I am bringing a main course." Mr. Klinger in HS freshman English drilled these rules into my head more than 40 years ago, and they stuck. There is a term for this: deixis. See this website: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/bring.htmlBTW, this would have been a GREAT hogwash word.
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 133
member
|
|
member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 133 |
Had to think about this one a minute, Faldage--Yes, since the one who carries someone to the place they need to be will probably also carry them back again, at which point they're probably plumb wore out!
And those "pass a dish" church dinners are here called "carry-in dinners," which means you're bringing or taking food to share--and if you just carry it, you don't have to think which word to use!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
And those "pass a dish" church dinners are here called "carry-in dinners,"we call 'em, "pot lucks"... and franks-and-beans... 
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
There is a term for this: deixis.
It's a great set of lectures. I'd suggest reading them. I took a semantics class co-taught by Chuck Fillmore and Paul Kay (of Berlin & Kay Basic Color Terms). It was a blast. Etymology: < deiksis 'mode of proof; exhibition; demonstrative force or reference' < deiknumi 'to bring to light, display, exhibit'; adjectival form deictic.
One interesting point is how personal pronominal paradigm matches up with adverbs of place: I/we ~ here, thou/ye/you there, he/she/it/they ~ yon. Though the paradigm is now defective in English (as yon is archaic), Spanish and other languages preserve it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
So 'bring' works only for the instance when you are at the place to which the thing will be carried and 'take' works for eveything else? Even if, say, you work right across the street from the church, but live three miles away, across town? Just trying to set limits here, mind.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,614
Members9,187
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
202
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
