|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
A chum of mine in the Mother Country uses the word "grotty" to express his displeasure at a person, place or thing. One does not hear this pejorative often here in the Colonies.
Do you suspect that it is a diminutive derivation of "grotesque"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Hmmm... me an' my friends used "grotty" & "grody" & "gross" pretty much interchangeably as teenagers in Atlanta in the 19mumblesmumbles. I've no idea whence the first two, though. I hope one or more of our scholars will leap into the fray.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
and is there an implied relationship to Reginald I. Perrin's chain of "Grot" shops?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
well, George Harrison used it in "Hard Days Night" to wonderful effect. he said it was slang for grotesque.
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
One place I looked said it was a backformation of grot, but grot is a grotto, so I don't think that's right.
Always to me it meant offensive, nasty, perhaps physically dirty.
I first ran across the word when an Aussie friend of mine told me that there was an incident involving I believe the Aussie Minister of Tourism or Culture or some such. There had been some research that showed the koalas actually get a buzz from their primary food, eucalyptus, so they are pretty much stoned all the time.
Anyway, during a photo op one of these "cuddly" creatures peed all over this politician, who dropped the animal and yelled something to the effect, "Get this grotty little dope fiend away from me." And of course it was live on national television. Nancy claimed the public furor was so great the guy had to resign.
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
George Harrison used it in "Hard Days Night" to wonderful effect. he said it was slang for grotesque.Likewise, the A-H. http://www.bartleby.com/61/6/G0280600.html
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
but isn't grotesque from grotto?
have you ever been in a sea side grotto? they are slimy, dark, dangerous, scary!
even stylized grottos in gardens are somewhat grotesques --scary--they like 'house of horrors' ride at amusment parks are designed to make a young girl huddle closer to male companion-as they enter one on their walk in the garden. (and what with the privacy they offer.. who know what will happen next!)
grotesque had expanding beyond grotto like, and often mean unsightly, unpleasant in the extreme, vile, slimy, and devoid of any aspect of pleasure.
-and i most definately agree that grotty is a form of grotesque! but words do that don't they?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
I certainly wouldn't spell it 'grotty'. Looks like it would be pronounced <grahtty>. It's 'groty' or 'grody'.
And kluge isn't spelled kludge
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
George pronounced it "grahty". grody is a different word... might mean the same thing, but.
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
but isn't grotesque from grotto?
Actually grotesque is from the French and describes a kind of decorative art, the French word is from the Italian grottesca with the same meaning < grottesco 'concerning grottos' < grotta 'an artificial or natrual cave' which is ultimately from Greek krupte 'crypt, vault' < kruptos 'hidden, secret'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004 |
In England, spelled grotty and prnounced grotty (English - not grahdy, though USians, were they to use it, might well say it that way). Means pretty much what Ted said - particularly about physically dirty - hence (despite the temptation to see it as correct), my slight suspicion that it might not be derived from grotesque.
cheer
the sunshine warrior
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
from http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/
grot
noun 1. filth: Wipe that grot off. 2. a filthy person. [backformation from grotty]
grotty
adjective 1. dirty; filthy. 2. of poor quality; nasty. [originally British slang (1960s); alteration of grotesque + -y; apparently originally Liverpool slang, and first widely popularised by The Beatles; the earliest record of this word is from the Beatles movie A Hard Day's Night which was released in 1964
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
Grotty - first thing that struck me was clumped mascara. Don't ask..
I recently learnt that 'grotesque' is also a noun for an ugly figure or shape. When used in this sense however, it apparently is still not a synonym for gargoyle. Haven't yet found out the difference between the two words. Many here will surely know. Do tell...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
pronounced grotty
So just how is that O pronounced? This USn wouldn't pronounce it like, e.g., German grohtie.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
Pronounced with a short "o" as ion "pot". In the Upper Colonies, grotty is applied to nearly anything that isn't very pleasant. "Geez, look at that grotty park bench. It's covered with birdshit!" or "Look at the grotty weather .. it's chucking it down again." Or it can be applied to how you feel ... "Bloody cold. I've been feeling grotty for days.". And I've always fondly imagined it came directly from "grotesque".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
So just how is that O pronounced? This USn wouldn't pronounce it like, e.g., German grohtie.
I've always heard it pronounced /'grat:i:/. Are you thinking of the Val Girl groady (sp?) /'gro:di/ as in "Groady to the max; I'm sure; it's like totally nauseating; like barf out; gag me with a spoon!"? [Moon Unit Zappa in Frank's song Valley Girl] Google shows groady, groddy, and grody.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
/'gro:di/
I'll go with that. I remember hearing it when the Valley Girls weren't even glints in their daddies' eyes. I've never heard /'grat:i:/, but then I don't get out much.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
I've never heard /'grat:i:/you've never seen Hard Day's Night? 
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
OK, so I don't *remember ever hearing /'gra:ti/. Besides, I'm supposed to take the pronunciation of a bunch of Scousers as an example?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
...the Val Girl groady (sp?)
As I mentioned cyber-æons ago, us teens in Hotlanta used "grody" quite frequently. Chicken or egg?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
They have themselves a Valley in 'Lanta, too, ASp?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
die Gänseleberpasteten, or the heresy of the pâté
Chicken or egg?
Duckling or goose-egg-salad?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
In reply to:
I recently learnt that 'grotesque' is also a noun for an ugly figure or shape. When used in this sense however, it apparently is still not a synonym for gargoyle. Haven't yet found out the difference between the two words. Many here will surely know. Do tell...
Gargoyles and grotesques are both sculptures of fantastic creatures, often frightening or humourous or both. They are both usually made of stone and they both usually are parts of buildings. When a gargoyle or a grotesque combines the parts of several real animals in itself, it is a chimera.
The distinction between gargoyles and grotesques is one of function.
The word gargoyle derives from the French word which derives from a Latin word which pertains to the throat or gullet. It is also connected to the words for gargle. This makes marvelously good sense when one understands that the original purpose of a gargoyle was to direct rainwater away from a building by spurting it out its mouth or other orifice. The sound of the water being so directed could approximate gargling.
If the thingie in question fits the description of a gargoyle in all respects but has nowhere for the rainwater to come out, it is a grotesque. Grotesques sometimes appear on a frieze, a horizontal band of decorated stone around the top of building, which has no water-moving function whatsoever.
Both are particularly useful in the home library where, when placed on bookshelves, they ward off evil spirits, demons and the like ... or, at least, so I tell my long-suffering bride.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 72
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 72 |
Dude, was so thinking of the Valley Girl and Square Peg. I was a feisty 3rd grader armed with groady (grotty?). My personal favorite chaser was "like, gag me with a credit card and put me on layaway." Say that with a look of disgust and a pair of day glo shoe laces and you are hot, hot, hot.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
Round here it is grotty. But then it is New England.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
Now we know: grotty is the antonym of nifty.
|
|
|
|
|
