#13065
12/16/2000 8:57 PM
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While watching the Oakland Raiders playing soggy American football against the Seattle SeaHawks, I heard broadcast announcer Dan Dierdorf describe Ricky Watters, one of the players, as "a gamer" because he (Watters) was playing injured. I thought Dierdorf quite the neologist for deriving this word from the adjective "game" meaning willing to carry something through to the end. However, upon looking it up, I found "gamer" was first used in 1630 to describe someone willing to compete. Like the song says, "Everyhing old is new again."
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#13066
12/16/2000 11:56 PM
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Allo Father Stever,
I have also heard gamer used to describe a person who plays computer games.
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#13067
12/17/2000 12:04 AM
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In that there was little interest in playing computer games in 1630, this (the use of "gamer" to describe one who plays them) is an example not of a neologism but of a neo-use-ism -- is there a proper word for that?
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#13068
12/17/2000 12:28 AM
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Our Father which art in Washington? sayeth: In that there was little interest in playing computer games in 1630, this (the use of "gamer" to describe one who plays them) is an example not of a neologism but of a neo-use-ism -- is there a proper word for that?I suspect there is now.  "Gamer", used in the sense you suggested is unknown in the Land of the Long Grey Rainstorm. However, we do say that someone who attempted to do something against the odds is "game", adjectivally speaking. I would have thought this usage was pretty widespread. Or it could be a Zild neouseism. Neouseism (the noun) gives rise to neouse (a verb). This appears, consonantal drift, vowel-flattening and every other kind of linguistic device taken in to account, to work. Perhaps tsuwm will wish to add it to his list.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#13069
12/17/2000 12:36 AM
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Ah-ha CapK, you've just reminded me of a French expression that our language police would like to eradicate since it uses an English word. When you want to egg someone into doing something, you say "t'est pas game." (You're not game). This is really a way of daring somebody to do something.
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#13070
12/17/2000 12:42 AM
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Forgive me, Lord, for giving birth to a monster.
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#13071
12/17/2000 1:17 AM
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Hmmmmm, I don't know who should be insulted by that. CapK or moi??
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#13072
12/17/2000 1:22 AM
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No one ever need be insulted by the repentence of another.
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#13073
12/17/2000 1:35 AM
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Ah but I am not insulted by the repentance Father, I simply wonder about who or what this monster is that you refer to. Reminds me of a the old joke... Two brothers are arguing when the older says to the younger "you are so stupid!" Unfortunately, his mother hears him and immediately insists that he say he’s sorry to his younger brother. The child turns to his brother and says, "I am sorry you're stupid" ooops, a bit of an afterthought (many hours later). I just realized that this post could come off as being rather harsh. This is not what I was going for Father S. I was joking about your comment saying you were repenting (being sorry) about having created a monster. Which made it look like either CapK or I had been called a monster. I hope you understood it that way. 
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#13074
12/17/2000 4:41 AM
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The monster I unleashed was the many-headed Hydra of word invention [e.g. "Neouseism (the noun) gives rise to neouse (a verb)"] and not any person on this Net. Once this sort of monster is unshackled, it begets many horrible words before being stuffed, with great difficulty, back into its cage. Being responsible for opening the cage door, I have put on sackcloth and doused my head with ashes from the fireplace. I shall be shriven by Gaudete Sunday.
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#13075
12/17/2000 4:54 AM
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A rather badly dressed and dirty Father Steve has opined (there should be a word such as "repentopined" to allow the full gamut of possible emotive content): I shall be shriven by Gaudete Sunday.
When I was a kid (yes, it's true; I was one once), I thought that "shriven" = "Shrunken". Mrs Malaprop would have approved. Soooo, I expect the expurgated and considerably smaller butterfly version of Father Steve to emerge from his sackcloth-and-ashes crysalis on the Monday following Gaudete Sunday (whenever that is).
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#13076
12/17/2000 12:32 PM
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In reply to:
Gaudete Sunday (whenever that is)
It is a day dedicated to the memory of 1970s folk groups. It is a moveable feast, which in some parts of the world has been removed altogether.
Bingley
Bingley
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#13077
12/18/2000 2:40 AM
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Today, 17 December, the Third Sunday of Advent, is Gaudete Sunday. It is so called because, in the ancient Roman Mass, the Introit for the day, taken from Psalm 84, began: "Gaudete in Domino semper" which means "Rejoice in the Lord always." This is a day whereon the discipline of Advent may be lightened, which relaxation is sometimes symbolized by the use of pink or rose vestments and the restoration of flowers to the altar (for just this one Sunday).
Padre
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#13078
12/18/2000 3:01 PM
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>Psalm 84, began: "Gaudete in Domino semper" The Psalms were written in Latin??? But this made me look up gaud and gaudy in the dictionary to see if there might be a connection. gaud comes from ME gaude, a trinket, while the adjective gaudy in the dictionary I have at hand has no derivation, so I assume it goes back to gaud for an explanation of its origin. BUT! There is a noun gaudy which comes from ME gaude, ornamental rosary bead, which comes in turn from gaudium, joy in Latin, and ultimately from gaudere to rejoice. But what is a gaudy, you might ask? It's not a bead, it is a chiefly British word for a feast, especially an annual university dinner. Whee! I LOVE English and the way we've derived words. I can't wait to get home to the OED and see how gaudere became an annual dinner. There was a young lady so baudy, She'd jump from a cake at a gaudy, The men liked the icing That looked so enticing, And she'd let them lick at her body. PLOP!!!!!
TEd
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#13079
12/18/2000 5:01 PM
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While the Psalms were all written in Hebrew, neither the Eastern nor the Western Church used them liturgically in their original language. The Eastern Church chanted them in Greek (and later a proto-version of Russian) while the Western Church chanted them in Latin. Numerous parts of the Western liturgy derived their names from their first words in Latin. Hence, the Lord's Prayer became known as the Pater Noster because these are its first two words in Latin. Jesus didn't pray that prayer originally in Latin, either, but there you are.
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#13080
12/18/2000 5:15 PM
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One of my favorite children's books is The Magic Garden.
There is a phrase in it which I could make no sense of when
I was a child: (the main character) was "a dead game little
sport". It still sounds odd to me.
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#13081
12/18/2000 5:33 PM
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The padre said Jesus didn't pray that prayer originally in Latin, either, but there you are.
Yes, I would have thought Aramaic, which isn't Hebrew either. That is if he came from Galilee.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#13082
12/18/2000 7:08 PM
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Gaudy
As a mystery fan, one of my favorites is D.L. Sayers Gaudy Night which takes place at Oxford and features a gaudy; i.e., a celebration. I have long wondered how the word is pronounced. Does it indeed rhyme with bawdy or with howdy or neither? Surely we have a Brit expert to enlighten us.
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#13083
12/18/2000 7:11 PM
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In reply to:
Jesus didn't pray in Latin.
Of course not. As my grandmother and all other old time evangelical fundamentalists knew, he spoke Elizabethan English, as recorded in the King James Bible.
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#13084
12/18/2000 7:15 PM
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Gamer
You will never get me to believe that the announcer was aware that 'gamer' is a word that has been around since 1630. He made it up and just by accident hit on a real, if archaic word. This illustrates one of my father's maxims:
Even a blind hog gets an acorn once in a while.
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#13085
12/18/2000 7:28 PM
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You will never get me to believe that the announcer was aware that 'gamer' is a word that has been around since 1630.
Dierdorf is a graduate of the University of Michigan. Do you think his education was, in some wise, deficient?
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#13086
12/18/2000 7:31 PM
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I don't think gamer is all that unusual; I've heard it used in sports commentary quite often -- and it's listed in M-W10 without any markings: a player who is game; especially : an athlete who relishes competition
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#13087
12/18/2000 7:54 PM
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The reasonable probability is that Jesus spoke Hebrew, Koine Greek and Aramaic. He likely used Hebrew in its religious context, Greek when speaking with Gentiles and Aramaic all of the rest of the time. The Lord's Prayer was probably spoken in Aramaic. Since all four of the Gospels were written in Koine Greek, there are lots of dissertations that can be written guessing what He really said in the language in which He said it.
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#13088
12/18/2000 8:21 PM
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Father Steve replies: The reasonable probability is that Jesus spoke Hebrew, Koine Greek and Aramaic. He likely used Hebrew in its religious context, Greek when speaking with Gentiles and Aramaic all of the rest of the time. The Lord's Prayer was probably spoken in Aramaic. Since all four of the Gospels were written in Koine Greek, there are lots of dissertations that can be written guessing what He really said in the language in which He said it.
I agree that there is room for doubt. Yet you can look at this logically. If Jesus was the son of a carpenter, what were the chances that he learned, colloquially, more than one language? I would imagine that while he might have picked up bits and pieces of the other languages while he was a boy, the chances of him being able to do more than just make himself understood seem slim - unless he was either exceedingly bright or his father didn't keep his nose to the grindstone in the carpentry business.
And given the economics of Galilee at that time, I find it hard to believe that Joseph wouldn't have put him to work ASAP to help make ends meet.
Not saying you're wrong, because I don't know for sure. Just looking at the social economics of the times.
As for the use of Greek for the gospels, well, they were all written a considerably length of time later. And, despite the assertions of various sects and religious scholars, I have trouble believing that they were written first-hand. I'd love to know what the Dead Sea scrolls have to say ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#13089
12/18/2000 11:45 PM
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Joseph and Mary likely spoke Aramaic at home. Jewish kids of his era were schooled in Hebrew, as well. As to his ability to pick up a third language, I have known kids who grew up in Switzerland who were easily fluent in four or five languages, because of kids' remarkable ability to assimilate language through their pores.
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#13090
12/19/2000 12:32 AM
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Jackie ~
My sense of the use of "dead" in the expression "dead game little sport" is that it means "very, exactly, extremely, precisely."
You have heard the Americanism "he was a dead ringer for his brother" in the sense that the two boys looked exactly alike.
Brits sometimes use it with time, e.g. "the race begins dead on noon" meaning that it will start precisely at 1200.
A man is not revealing necrophiliac tendencies when he says a woman is "dead gorgeous."
The position of twelve o'clock on a flywheel is sometimes called TDC for "top dead center."
Odd, this language of ours.
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#13091
12/19/2000 5:14 AM
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In reply to:
As a mystery fan, one of my favorites is D.L. Sayers Gaudy Night which takes place at Oxford and features a gaudy; i.e., a celebration. I have long wondered how the word is pronounced. Does it indeed rhyme with bawdy or with howdy or neither? Surely we have a Brit expert to enlighten us.
Well, I would pronounce it to rhyme with bawdy, but not, pace TEd, body.
Bingley
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#13092
12/19/2000 5:27 AM
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And we are told that Jesus spent some of his childhood in Egypt, where koine Greek was also commonly spoken, in the cities at least.
Contrary to the experience of most of us on this board, even without formal education multi-lingualism is the norm, not monolingualism.
Bingley
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#13093
12/19/2000 5:38 AM
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I love that I'm having a conversation with a person in Indonesia about Jesus speaking Greek in Egypt, while folks from Oceania and Europe are reading along. If Anu were not mythical, I would thank him again and again.
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#13094
12/19/2000 6:43 AM
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Thank you for the reminder, padre. There was me busy cursing because each page seemed to be taking for ever to come through.
Bingley
Bingley
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#13095
12/19/2000 12:37 PM
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Amazement and blessings, indeed. I have found so much happiness here.
I notice Bingley added Spanish to the ratatouille.
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#13096
12/19/2000 1:21 PM
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As a friend of mine used to say about his education at Ann Arbor, "They Blue it."
For you non-Americans and non-football fans: The U of M is indeed a grand institution that imparts an excellent education to those who choose to be educated. Their fighting words on the football field are "Go Blue", a reference to their blue and maize colors. Or, as I used to say to my ex-wife, who was a U of M grad and very proud of it, blue and corn.
TEd
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#13097
12/19/2000 3:31 PM
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In reply to:
use of Greek for the Gospels
As our resident chaplain noted, there are a number of reasons for thinking Jesus spoke Greek as well as Aramaic. Add the fact the Galilee was on a major trade route and Koine Greek was the lingua franca of the ancient world.
As to the Gospels being written in Greek and when, there are scholars who assume that the synoptic Gospels (and maybe St. John too) were originally written (or at least composed and passed along orally) in Aramaic and only later written down in Greek (the koine variety, of course). As to the date of their composition it is now, I believe, generally agreed by scholars that St. Mark was written first (ca. 65 AD ??), St. John last (by 110 latest ??). This means that the reduction to writing of the narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus got started about a generation after their occurrence. To us moderns, accustomed to instant history, this seems like a long time and too long to be of any historical value; but in terms of ancient history, this is not unusual -- rather prompt, if anything. Besides that, it is argued that no one wrote down the teachings of Jesus promptly because the first Christians believed that Jesus' return to Earth was imminent, certainly before that generation died out. When this didn't happen, it occurred to them that it would be prudent to get things in writing.
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#13098
12/19/2000 5:03 PM
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prudent to get things in writing...so, Lord, about this promised afterlife: is it tenancy or freehold?
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#13099
12/19/2000 5:10 PM
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Ted says: Their fighting words on the football field are "Go Blue", a reference to their blue and maize colors. Or, as I used to say to my ex-wife, who was a U of M grad and very proud of it, blue and corn.
... which helps to explain why she is his ex-wife?
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#13100
12/19/2000 5:17 PM
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> ... which helps to explain why she is his ex-wife?
Nope. It was my fault. I couldn't get over my timidity enough to talk with her meaningfully. Yet another cace of irreconcilable diffidences.
TEd
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#13101
12/19/2000 5:42 PM
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> Well, I would pronounce it to rhyme with bawdy, but not, pace TEd, body.
If a bawdy meet a bawdy, comin thru the rye.
One is allowed a certain poetic license when making up limericks on the fly.
A fly and a flea in a flue -- a limerick on the fly!
TEd
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#13102
12/20/2000 9:58 PM
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old hand
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old hand
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Their fighting words on the football field are "Go Blue", a reference to their blue and maize colors.
Let's not start talking about college football now . . . I happen to be an Ohio State fan.
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