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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Colly vs. Collyrium #12971 12/16/00 05:11 AM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 1 B Bugger OP stranger OP Bugger stranger B Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 1 Today's installment on "Collyrium" is a little confusing to me, especially the asterisk at collyrium which refers to the footnote, "Kajal: a ... lamp soot applied to the eyes ... for cosmetic and medicinal purposes." Collyrium is certainly an eyewash. Webster agrees, but makes no mention of soot. Interestingly, the entry immediately above it is "Colly" meaning "to blacken as with coal dust." I find no reference on the Word of the Day page however to, in any manner, connect collyrium with Kajal. Am I missing something here? I need more supporting information on the connection. Furthermore, I think the composer of the above-mentioned footnote has misinterpreted the meaning of the poem. Since collyrium is soothing to the eyes, it is not something "whose use is given up" "when the eyes are inflamed and red" (although perhaps the use of Kajal or Colly is). Rather, I submit, the reason collyrium cannot be applied to the eyes is because "Within them(the eyes) dwells my Beloved. Where is the place for anything else?" especially for "anything else" whose purpose is to banish the source of the irritation, which we know to be her "Beloved" for whom she yearns. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Colly vs. Collyrium #12972 12/16/00 07:04 AM Joined: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,788 Seattle, Washington, USA Father Steve Carpal Tunnel Father Steve Carpal Tunnel Joined: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,788 Seattle, Washington, USA the entry immediately above it is "Colly" meaning "to blacken as with coal dust." Hence the term "colliery" meaning a coal mine. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Colly vs. Collyrium #12973 12/16/00 09:50 AM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 724 Avy old hand Avy old hand Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 724 >Rather, I submit, the reason collyrium cannot be applied to the eyes is because "Within them(the eyes) >dwells my Beloved. Where is the place for anything else?" especially for "anything else" whose purpose is >to banish the source of the irritation, which we know to be her "Beloved" for whom she yearns. Bugger You interpretation of the poem maybe correct. I would just like to add that I don't think this is a love poem so much as a religious verse. I only go by the mention of Kabir who was a poet saint and a man. Since the verses were more heard than read, it was the style to have the poet put his or her name in the verse itself, which would be a kind of exclamation to self or a loud thought. So the word beloved would mean God. Only I was a puzzled with the femine analogy of the use of kajal. But having asked a few, maybe uninformed, sources, I find that men in the times of Kabir also used Kajal. In which case the reference here is definitely religious. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Colly vs. Collyrium #12974 12/17/00 04:54 AM Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 11,613 Louisville, Kentucky Jackie Carpal Tunnel Jackie Carpal Tunnel Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 11,613 Louisville, Kentucky Welcome to you, bugger. An intriguing line of questioning. Nice to see you posting again, Father Steve. Here's the verse: "Kabir, in my eyes reddened by love How can collyrium* be applied? Within them dwells my Beloved, Where is the place for anything else?" ---------------------------------------------------------- Avy, thanks for your words of enlightenment. Going by this plus another of Kabir's quotes that Anu has used, I conclude that Kabir must have been very wise indeed. My interpretation is that perhaps eyes that have been reddened by love are not in need of being soothed; also that the Beloved has filled the eyes to capacity, leaving no room for even a bit of eyewash. ---------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- C. K.: to you! You and your danged bevy of ??? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Colly vs. Collyrium #12975 12/17/00 04:58 AM Joined: Nov 2000 Posts: 3,146 Northamptonshire, England Capital Kiwi Carpal Tunnel Capital Kiwi Carpal Tunnel Joined: Nov 2000 Posts: 3,146 Northamptonshire, England Jackie roared: C. K.: to you! You and your danged bevy of ??? [Piously] Sticks and stones, Jackie, sticks and stones .... The idiot also known as Capfka ... 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