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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230 |
Can anyone confirm or deny the veracity of a factoid I heard years ago. Most people I know are meticulously careful to pronounce "Barcelona" the Castilian way, as in my subject line. I heard, however, that in Catalan, it actually is Bar-cel-ona. Any takers?
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
I thought only a single 's' was given the sibilant treatment in Espanol - and so always figured that Bar-thel-owna was a foreign affectation.
But I dunno for sure....
stales
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230 |
I have a Basque friend who invariably pronounces it Barthelona. I tend to prefer Latin-American pronunciation of Spanish words, but she instinctively corrects me with the Castilian version.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 81
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 81 |
That's right, Catalan has no th-sound. Nor do the Spanish dialects of Valencia or Andalucia, so people who think they're being authentic by lisping those names aren't really.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
pronounces it Barthelona. Ooh! That sets my teeth on edge just from seeing it, let alone hearing it. That is the main reason I've always disliked Spanish. Jenet's comment hit it: I can't help thinking to myself, "Why can't they make the letter sound properly?" In college, I met a couple of students from Colombia (I think), and they taught me that our words that end in -ty (for ex. university) end in the -ath sound for them, so that their pronunciation would be universidath. I couldn't help it--to me it just sounded like they couldn't be bothered to make the correct sound. And yes, for the record, I realize how childish that is of me, but.  Thanks for the distinctions of Catalan, etc.
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
In Puerto Rico, the people notoriously omit the sound of the letter "S" from their pronunciation altogether. Thus, the expression "es lo mismo" is pronounced "eh lo mee-moh" -- which requires some adjustment for the person who learned high school textbook Spanish.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004 |
I presume that, in RP Spanish, the c-as-th sound is the proper way to pronounce it. Or are you saying the Spanish, with their rather phonetic system, should change pronunciation to suit us Anglos?
cheer
the sunshine warrior
ps: Edited to correct there/their horror
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
Oh, why not? And at the same time, make Arabic, Hindi, Pushto, Bahasa and all them other pesky languages which won't do it phonetically toe the line as well. We can just beat up on them until they conform to our standards. Or we can send in the mari... well, maybe not. 
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Sure, why should we and the French have all the fun with spelling/pronunciation difficulties?
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
Catalan is interesting. Officially it's a European minority language, yet it has more speakers than Danish, an official majority EU language. Why shouldn't Castillian Spanish speakers pronounce Barcelona with with a dental fricative. Afterall anglophones pronounce Paris with an /s/ at the end. Saying Barcelona with a lisp is no more pretentious than saying /pa'Ri/. The CSp and Catalan pronuciations also differ in vowel quality: /,barTe'lona/ ~ /,bars@'lon@/. BTW, I always thought the rule for {s} > [T] was mirrored in the orthography. Only an /s/ in non-Castillian Spanish that is written {c} or {z} is lisped.
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