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Do you mean word of mouth, or spoken?
belMarduk:
I used parole in Saussure's sense, as 'speech' or 'utterance' versus langue 'language'. Here's what he has to say:
"En séparant la langue de la parole, on sépare du même coup: 1º ce qui est social de ce qui est individuel; 2º ce qui est essentiel de ce qui est accessoire et plus ou moins accidentel.
"La langue n'est pas une fonction du sujet parlant, elle est la produit que l'individu enregistre passivement; elle ne suppose jamais de préméditation, et la réflexion n'y intervient que pour l'activité de classement [...]
"La parole est au contraire un acte individuel de volunté et d'intelligence, dans lequel il convient de distinguer: 1º les combinaisons par lesquelles le sujet parlent utilise le code de la langue en vue d'exprimer sa pensée personnelle; 2º le mécanisme psycho-physique qui lui permet d'extérioriser ces combinaisons.
"Il est à remarquer que nous avons défini des choses et non des mots; les distinctions établies n'ont donc rien à redouter de certains termes ambigus qui ne se recouvrent pas d'une langue à l'autre. Ainsi en allemand Sprache veut dire « langue » et « language »; Rede correspond à peu prés à « parole », mais y ajoute le sense spécial de « discours ».
[Ferdinand de Saussure Cours de linguistique générale, pp.30f.]
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Carpal Tunnel
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Sorry Insel. I tried reading it but it's just too verbose for me. I have trouble following texts that use four words to say something that could be said in one. It irks me.
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inselpeter: thanks for the link. I'll need time to digest it, but it is interesting. I was thinking of the standard model of communication that people often propose and, I suppose, believe in. You know speaker (S) has an idea (C), encodes it into a sentence (M) in some language (L) known to him and hearer (H). H hears M and decodes it. Now H has the same C in his mind. Thoughts have been transfered. The code has to be fixed for maximum telementation.
A different, funnier model of communication suggested in a lecture once by Charles Fillmore was that discourse was like two people juggling balls and occasionally throwing a ball at one another, knocking some of the other person's balls in flight out, etc.
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Pooh-Bah
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>>(S)(C) etc.<<
All the flavor of the empirical without the calories!
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Pooh-Bah
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>>Sorry Insel..<<
Like I said, it might be tempting. *** Like you, I prefer terse writing. However, I don't think this guy is tossing fluff just trying to be precise, perhaps in service of a hopeless cause.
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It seemed that the author was being authentic. He's just using a specialized vocabulary. Many folks who hear me and a friend discussing computers think we're speaking in gibberish, but we're not. Certain fields develop certain vocabulary to discuss things. Lawyers especially try to use words in a precise and defined way. Of course, all professions have their inauthentic blatherers. Thing is they might fool outsiders but seldom insiders.
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Carpal Tunnel
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baltherersI got halfway to OneLook before I realized what happened...
formerly known as etaoin...
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>>>I used parole in Saussure's sense, as 'speech' or 'utterance' versus langue 'language'. Here's what he has to say:
That is quite a good distinction between parole and langue that Saussure makes jheem.
The passive and active differences in the two words are ones that I had never considered before.
I'm glad you posted this.
Gin.
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That is quite a good distinction between parole and langue that Saussure makes
You might want to read Saussure's book, belMarduk. It's quite accessible and available in any fine bookstore or library. The Cours was put together and published psothumously by a couple of Saussure's students. In the PIE world, he's known for his brilliant Mémoire sur le système primitif des voyelles dans les langues indo-europeennes written when he was in his early twenties. In it he hypothesized the existence of some phonemes (called laryngeals) in PIE that had not survived in any of the then-known IE daughter languages. Later in the 20th century, with the decipherment of Hittite, a phoneme was discovered where he said a laryngeal would be. Saussure is usually considered to be the father of structuralism, which started out in linguistics and spread from there to other disciplines.
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OL. Yup, it's from the Scots form of balderdash, a kind of quoits played with curling stones and cricket bats in the North Sea.
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