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I'm not disputing that, Faldo. What I am disputing is the linkage between that and the use of "wr" as being a causal relationship. The assumption would be, were it true, that all words beginning with "wr" would have some sense of twisting. You can only establish that by some very judicious glossing of the meaning of the words.
I like what you write, Pfranz. I don't think you're wrong.
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the linkage between that and the use of "wr" as being a causal relationship.
Well, failing lslslsls coming back and explaining I can only say that I didn't read that assumption into the words. The words in question start with wr because they are a subset of the wer- rooted words that do that. There were other groups of wer- rooted words that don't have that and some words that start with wr that don't come from wer-. Wright, for example, comes from werg-, to do. But other than that all the words in the AHD4 that begin with wr and are traced back to PIE trace back to wer-.
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Faldage, what is PIE? I don't know what you guys are talking about.
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The words in question start with wr because they are a subset of the wer- rooted words that do that.
I'm beginning to follow your argument, Faldage. Thank you for adding some details.
Are you saying that all or most of IsIsIs' examples are derived from words that start with "wer"?
The sound of "wer" is the same sound as "whirl" and "whirr", both of which get at the 'twisting' idea that IsIsIs is postulating for words beginning with "wr".
You have just made a very strong case, Faldage, that the "wr" words in IsIsIs' list are originally derived from "wer" words, and the association with 'twisting' which she has postulated is not happenstance, but causal.
I really can't expect you to agree with me under any circumstances, Faldage, but can you agree with IsIsIs, a newcomer, that her postulation of a connection between "wr" words [originally "wer" words] and the idea of 'twisting' or 'turning' is compelling, and deserving of due, albeit reluctant and belated, recognition?
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belMarduk: PIE == Proto-Indo-European. It's a reconstructed language from which most of the languages in Europe and a goodly number of those in South Asia descend. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages
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Hmmm, thanks jheem. It's very interesting. I got lost in hte link pages there. I'm gonna have to take a few hours to go through everything.
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Well, failing lslslsls coming back and explaining I can only say ...
Here's lslslsls coming back and, probably, failing ... Now that I've had time to absorb that entry from Bartleby/PIE/AHD4, I see that the pattern I picked up on wasn't happenstance. I'm not sure what constitutes a causal relationship here--two questions arise. Are many of the wr- words effects of the common cause of the PIE wer- root? Obviously. Was there some kind of onomatopoeic cause of the wer- root having the meaning of turning? Perhaps it could have been the twisting up of the mouth to make the more emphatic -r- sound, but that's just silly speculation (silliness never stopped me before).
By the way, the issue came up for me a while back when I was doing a study of the wrath of God--I wanted to get to the 'root' of that. I've returned to the study in the last few weeks for a Bible study appropriate to this season in which I'm looking again at how, Christians believe, God turned his wrath on himself--in his Son--in the suffering of Christ.
Thanks for letting me spark a delightful conversation. My moniker is simply from my initials, 4 times--my name being Larry. Pleased to meet you all.
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Are many of the wr- words effects of the common cause of the PIE wer- root? Obviously.In fairness, I think we have Faldage to thank for that piece of the evidentiary puzzle. That (on top of the obvious onamatopoeic association) is what convinced me you were right as well. Great insight of yours, IsIsIs. It is well understood that so-called outsiders are often the best innovators because they are not confined by traditional habits of thinking [what our own AWADian, of Troy, would call "the existing paradigm"]. Also, they 'cross pollinate' by bringing new insights from other fields of expertise. This is not to denigrate experts in any field in any way, of course, including people who are knowledgeable about "PIE" or "Old English roots" because their knowledge and research is the basis for new advances. It was, after all, Faldage who provided the connection between "wr" words and "wer" words which clinched the case for your thesis. I am glad you are getting the recognition you deserve, IsIsIs, but I do not think we should overlook the value of our own homegrown experts. Glad you enjoyed the discussion. We all enjoyed it, I'm sure. 
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Perhaps it could have been the twisting up of the mouth to make the more emphatic -r- sound, but that's just silly speculation
Not necessarily silly, but it should be remembered that it's likely that the /r/ sound wasn't originally pronounced with a twisting up of the mouth but with a flap of the tip of the tongue against the top of the mouth just behind the teeth.
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My moniker is simply from my initials, 4 times--my name being LarryWelcome, Larry! And, aside from the interesting wr discussion, thanks for clearing up your name. When I first saw it, I wasn't completely sure if I was looking at lower-case Ls or upper-case Is. (IsisIsis being more pronounceable than lslslsls ) Even though the upper-case I has serifs and the lower-case l doesn't...never mind 
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