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many signers of ASL did not know that their language even had a grammar, yet it does, as nuncle says, possess a rich grammar all its own
That's because once you learn the grammar, you can forget it.
It's like riding a bicycle. It's a breeze until you try to teach someone else.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
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I studied sign language years ago and still use the fragments that are left occasionally. ASL is quite different than signed English. It is faster, skipping a lot of the small words and suffixes and prefixes. eg "More fast, (throw out) small sign." Initially it can look like abbreviated English (or text messaging) until you start to understand a conversation you are watching. Each sign carries more meaning that the written word. There is a sign for park (a car) but when it is used that one sign can show you whether they parallel parked or spent 10 minutes backing in, or whether they hit the other car. There is a visual poetry and ability to pun based not on the sound of the word but on something I don't have a word for. For example signing the word vain with the left hand mirroring the right while you put a stuck up expression on your face. Or "Jaws", the movie. A friend signed it to me by spelling out the word, again with both hands simultaneously. The W's (index, middle and ring figers held up) snapped closed into the S's (fists) just like a shark biting.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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gh, it could be that the sound is meant to mimic an animal noise something like the low of a cow, to covey derogation.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
L bos (bovis), Gk bous, Skt gau.h, Old Irish bó, and English cow are all cognates. From PIE *gwou- 'cow'.
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Faldage-- I sent email to a friend of mine who has a PhD in linguistics from UCLA (on extrinsic tongue muscles); he studied with Ladefoged in the late '60s. He taught for a decade at UCSD and elsewhere. I asked:
"What's your verdict on bilbabials are easier to pronounce because your mouth is in the default position? Also, how about those babies who learn bilabials first, along with their words for mama and papa? "
He replied:
"Don't know about that. I can't see, from a physiological/anatomical POV, why bilabials should be any easier to make than dental/alveolar stops or even velars. For example, from the cine-X-ray films I've seen (including the one of me), there is mandible movement involved in all stop+vowel sequences, including bilabials. You could even make a somewhat sophistic case that bilabials involve the coordination of more separate muscles than does a simple tongue touch to the alveolar ridge. (I wouldn't make that case.) In thinking about the muscles involved, I can't see how there's much of a difference. Of course bilabials might be easier for little Elmo to imitate from watching the parents."
I've forwarded the PDF link, and will get to you if he has anything interesting to say.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
There was a retrospective here recently, of the documentaries of the French filmmaker, Niclolas Philibert. The film's subjects are communities somehow--if just--marginalized: the workers at the Louvre, from curators to floor sweepers (a fully automated machine); a small, rural psychiatric hospital, a one room school, and, simply, the deaf. "In the Land of the Deaf" profiles a number of individuals and their communities, and elegantly shows their struggles in a hearing world, their joys... I mention it here, because it is a wonderful opportunity to watch signing; most of the interviews are conducted in Sign. And among them, a signing teacher relates all sorts of things with tremendous humor which, with the help of sub-titles, is readily accessible to the non-signing viewer as sign. This teacher maintains that each country has its own sign language and that it takes a couple of days to get used to it, when traveling. However, after a couple of days they can sign like compatriots. He then goes on quite a roll about the difficulties hearing people have in the same situation -- even with dictionaries and phrase books. It's hilarious. ...
For those who don't know him (as I didn't) , Philibert is a wonderful filmmaker. I won't go on about why -- it may be difficult to find his work. I know that "To Be and To Have" (about the school) has been released on DVD in Canada. "In the Land of the Deaf" has been released on VHS.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
In reply to:
something my mother would say: "I confronted the politician and asked him if he had broken the law and he didn't say 'Boo.'" Which meant that he didn't respond at all.
There is the expression "wouldn't say boo to a goose", meaning excessively timid, though given the nasty aggressive manner of those particular birds ....
Bingley
Bingley
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