|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
http://chronicle.com/free/v50/i24/24b01301.htmI have not yet begun to digest all this, but it's wonderful. it deserves a better adjective... 
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear etaoin: worth reading, but right off quick I found myself disagreeing with him. If a woman walks into a room,
and men's jaws drop, that doesn't mean she is beautiful. It
might mean she neglected to put on garments below the waist.
And then of course jaws wouldn't drop, but kilts might tilt.
The answer is to listen to what you've written and revise
until it reads right. Only problem with me is it still sounds lousy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
haha! made me laugh out loud, Bill! poetic, too. kilts that tilt... going to use that one tomorrow...
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Dunno that I'd say the piece is "wonderful". I wonder if he wrote it seriously, or as an effort to incite? Whichever, it goes very much to show once again that, to a very large extent, language usage choices are extremely (AUGH, I wish that just ONCE I could type "extremely", and not "extrememly"!) personal. He likes some uncommon adjectives but considers others as "showing off".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230 |
In reply to:
He likes some uncommon adjectives but considers others as "showing off"
Yes, I noticed that inconsistency in his position, too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
well, it did make me think about adjectival usage. perhaps wonderful is too strong, but it was a fun read.
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
"It is not entirely easy to tell when Ben Yagoda's pieces in The Chronicle of Higher Education are evidencing his dry wit and when they are serious. But if there is meant to be anything serious at all about his claims that experts on writing all agree that adjectives are bad, I really don't know how any of them managed to reach the stage of being thought expert. How could it "one of the few points on which the sages of writing agree" possibly be that "it is good to avoid them" when to utter the very thought you need the adjective good? How could William Zinsser possibly be serious in saying that most adjectives are "unnecessary" when he couldn't finish his sentence without the adjective unnecessary? How could Yagoda himself suggest that writers mainly use adjectives because they are "they either haven't, or are afraid they haven't, provided sufficient data", while using the adjectives afraid and sufficient in order to say it?" ... http://www.languagelog.org/
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
I think Mr. Pullum (the saprogenic author of this commentary) has completely missed Yagoda's point: the adjective is overused by many to the point of becoming wondrously cliched.
-joe (great save!) friday
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
well he does say this: I believe that a resourceful and creative use of adjectives is one of the most important, if not the most important, marks of a first-rate essayist or critic. It is an indication of originality, wit, observation -- indeed, the cast and quality of the writer's mind.I was re-reading the essay when Joe posted...
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<It might mean she neglected to put on garments below the waist.>>
Doc, you think like a scientist. If you thunk like a dramatist, you'd see two beats--and thank the man behind you to keep his tilt to hisself.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
ran across this in a pub today, remarked joe synchronistically. http://www.pyramidtiltedkilt.com/
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Ooo, I've been thinking about this thread, eta.
The wife of the friend of my husband recently loaned me three books by Anne Rice. A series on witches, the first book being The Witching Hour.
I had never read anything by Anne Rice before and I never will again.
This woman is so dependent on adjectives it is annoying. I only managed to get about one sixth through the book and I couldn't stand it anymore.
One guy remembers how his childhood home in New Orleans looked, with (alternately) towering, majestic, grand oaks and (alternately) verdant lush, luxuriant, fertile, leafy, green gardens.
Then, he tells somebody about his childhood home and goes over everything again - with all the adjectives variations.
Then he goes back to his childhood home and describes the whole thing as he travels through it - again with all the adjectives.
One more page on towering oaks, majestic oaks and I was ready to go to a real old fashion book burning.
Seriously, this is such a rare occurance for me. I'll read just about anything. Even if I'm not too thrilled about it, I'll finish the book, but this one was impossible.
If the redundant adjectives had been trimmed from the pages I read, I'm sure I would have been hooked. As it was, I forced myself to get even that far in.
(I was only reading them because this woman had a severe post-partum depression and this was the first time in a couple of years I saw her enthused about something. Finally she said "oh, I'll lend them to you and we can discuss it." But I just can't finish them. I was giving myself a headache trying.)
How can Anne Rice be so popular? I just don't get it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
>>This woman is so dependent on adjectives, it is annoying.<<
"But I spoke Roman-fashion, with plenty of adjectives and comparisons, making sure that everything was clear."
--Sergio Leone, as quoted in "Something To Do With Death"
and a ditty from the same work:
E'morto un Cardinale
che ha fatto bene e male
Il mal l'ha fatto bene
e il ben l'a fatto male.
(A Cardinal is dead,
who did good and bad things.
The bad, he did well
and the good, he did badly.)
-- Roman song
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
How can Anne Rice be so popular? I just don't get it.
Not everybody is so bothered by adjectives as you are, apparently. I've read a couple of Anne Rice books and don't remember having any adjectival problems. At one point in my life I was quite dependent, spiritually, on a stand of oak trees. They were in no way towering. I get a completely different picture from 'towering oaks' than I do from 'oaks'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Allo Faldage,
I've never been bothered by adjective before. What got to me was the constant repeating of the same adjectives. Once you mention towering oaks, is it really necessary to say that over and over again.
I felt exactly like when you're sitting there and a mosquito buzzes around your ear. You swat it away and you think you're fine and then a minute later it's buzzing there again...grrr.
I know she is extremely popular, so it is evident most people don't feel like I do, but reading the book reminded me of this thread which is why I brought it up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
I love Anne Rice, and certainly don't find her repetitive (sdj). I must admit I find her earlier (adj) books better (adj) than her later (adj) ones. I did hear that she had such bad (adj) experiences with her editor in the first few (adj) books that once she became famous (adj) enough to do so, she insisted on being published unedited (adj).
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
I've read only one book by Rice, "Interview with the Vampire," in the late 70s. I remember enjoying, and being disturbed by what seemed campy mediation on asexually reproducing communities -- in this case, the urban gay but the Shakers would be another example -- and the supposed existential tedium of immortality. The latter was the disturbing part but I guess immortality is probably not a category that fits vampires.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,916
Posts230,438
Members9,211
| |
Most Online17,319
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
