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#121557 01/30/04 02:28 PM
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Very interesting. Though I've been to Cymru, I never managed to get to one of those great villages where the name had more letters than inhaibtants. For others who may wonder, the word is a compound: eglwys 'church' (as somebody pointed out in another thread, a loanword from Latin ecclesia) and Eirw 'a saint's name'. Does anybody know what Eriw's name is in Latin?


#121558 01/30/04 02:35 PM
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Is it possible that "Eiru" is not a name, but a title,
equivalent of "saint". I'm thinking of German "Ehre"/


#121559 01/30/04 02:38 PM
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Not only that but James is rendered in Welsh as Iago, like in Santiago.

Yes, but Hebrew has no /dZ/ j-sound either. James is one of the English forms of ya’akobh. You can see all kinds of transformation of the name throughout European languages: Italian Giacomo, Spanish Diego (from Santiago, i.e., Saint James), Jaime, French Jacques. The thing about "Welsh" surnames is that the Wlesh didn't tradtionally have surnames, like many peoples throughout the world, but worked with a system of patronymics. Many folks were forced by government decree to adopt family names sometime in the late 18th century / early 19th century. Cf. Jews in the Russian Empire. Most of the names ending in -baum and -stein date from that era. One of my favorite onomastic prefixes is Ffitz from Anglo-Norman fils 'son'. The double eff is /f/ in Welsh whereas single eff is /v/.


#121560 01/30/04 02:39 PM
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I'm not sure, Bill.


#121561 01/30/04 02:46 PM
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mav's second site says The church is dedicated to St. Eirw . Afraid I just assumed the saint was a "him".


#121562 01/30/04 04:04 PM
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I notice there's a Eglwyswen (Whitchurch, 'white church') nearby. The name could contain other than a saint's name, n'est-ce pas? White in Welsh is gwyn, which after soft mutation gives us wyn, or in this case (?) wen. Is it possible that the second part of the compound is something like gwrw or geirw? I'm not sure. Probably should just have Mav ask one of the local historians or pastors at one of the churches. BTW, Sanskrit guru means 'heavy' literally, as well as 'teacher'. Related to Latin gravitas.


#121563 01/30/04 04:55 PM
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mm, I've tried that, nuncle, and there seems to be a bit of confusion as to whether the name does actually derive from a a putative saint about which damn-all is known

Another theory has it that 'wrw' derives from a word that translates as 'acre', though I fergit the prezact etymology just now. Tell me if you get any more inspired thoughts! OK, it's home to cook supper ~ have a great weekend folks.


#121564 01/30/04 06:55 PM
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well, this suddenly struck me as I saw all those "w"'s go by. My last name is Grow, and an uncle a while back traced our North American lineage back to one John Grow, who lived in Ipswich, Mass, arriving on the shores around 1640, IIRC. one book I found, "the History of Newbury, VT" states that he came "from Wales". my Father inquired of some sort of authority in Wales who said that Grow didn't sound like much of a Welsh name. but, I wonder, might it have been Grw? would that even be likely? I am just really curious, and would love to be able to share some info with my family.



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#121565 01/30/04 07:19 PM
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eta-- Almost anything's possible when it comes to personal names, family history, etc. Took a look at an English surname dictionary and there's no Grow in there, but there is Grew and Grewcock (li'l Grew) from AN la grue 'crane'. Thing about the 'w' in Welsh is, I'm not sure it was used all that often in Middle Welsh (which was ending around the time of your ancestor's emigration). Good luck.


#121566 01/30/04 08:25 PM
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thanks, jheem. it's an on-going project, so something will surface someday...



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