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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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journeyman
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journeyman
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In reply to:
In SAMPA, something like: /'deSl/ and /'twA:l/; and in English orthography, something like: deshl and twahl.
You've got "deiseal" exactly right, but O'Siadhail's Conamara Irish would surely render "tuathal" as something like "tu:@l" (the standard form would be "tu:h@l"). At any rate, the stress would fall on the "u", not the "a".
You mentioned "deas" meaning "south"
Note also the words "deas" meaning "nice", and "dea-" meaning "good". This relationship between "right-hand" and rightness, goodness, etc. is common to a whole bunch of IE languages and Finnish.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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er, can you review what vowel them @'s stand for? Ta. 
formerly known as etaoin...
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veteran
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OP
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Thanks for the correction. I never took Irish, though I've been meaning to get around to it one of these days. It's good that we have a Gaelic person here for these kinds of questions.
The '@' is a schwa. The sound at the end of sofa.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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schwaoh. d@  while we're here, I've always pronounced schwa: schwah. is it actually schw@?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Another way of hearing the sound of schwah: it's the u in "circus."
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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the sound of schwah: it's the u in "circus
What?!? I say circus with a definite "uh" sound for the u, as in humbug. Is this the schwa sound? Or have I been mispronouncing it all my life? (Wouldn't be the only thing.)
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veteran
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OP
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Great question. I've always pronounced it /Swa:/ or sometimes /Sva:/, but I looked up the word in Klein's Etymological Hebrew Dictionary and here's what he gives: ShV’ (that's shin vav aleph). With points to indicate vowels you get /S@va’/ with the schwa sound coming between the /S/ and the /v/. Etymology: "Borrowed from Syr. /S@veya’/ (= the seven points), lit. 'even' or 'equal' (points), name of the accent mark [here's a glyph of schwa which looks like our colon under the letter in question], which corresponds to the Heb. accent /zakif/. Syr. /sh@veya’/ derives from Syr. /sh@va’/ (was like or equal), which is related to Heb. /shavah/ (was even smooth or like)." Some medieval Hebrew grammarians spelled schwa with a beth instead of a vav, but it would have been pronounced the same, though changing the words numerological value. So both of us were pronouncing "wrong". Especially since there's a glottal stop at the end.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Okay, maybe it's like the i in circus?
("In whose pronunciation?", of course)
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