#11818
12/02/2000 12:45 PM
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Hello dear Brit wordsmiths: Last night I watched three episodes of a British comedy called "As Time Goes By." (It was a special presentation while the Maine PBS was raising money.) In the second show, the phrase "chuntering" was used by main male character Lionel (Geoffrey Palmer). The female lead Jean (Judi Dench) said, in effect, that he was going on and on about something and he responded "I am not chuntering on..." I thought I caught the meaning by context but I wonder. The episode had to do with the day after Lionel proposed to Jean for those who know the show. The OE says chunter means to "mutter, grumble, murmur querulousy" but that's not what he was doing exactly. Please enlighten me. While I am chuntering on, in the third episode about a wedding anniversary, the words tent and marquee were used interchangeably. Americans use tent for the big, free-standing rooms put up outdoors to shelter an area for a party or a circus! (Sometimes the same thing, n'est ce pas?)  What we call a marquee is the overhead awning extending from a doorway to the curb or driveway. A marquee can be canvas or any type of material that shelters. What's with that? And ... what the h--- is/are cream (creme) tarts? wow
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#11819
12/02/2000 1:27 PM
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Well, I'm only a Brit at two generations removed, but here goes:
In New Zealand, "tent" and "marquee" are interchangeable. However, a marquee can also be, as you suggest, a large awning. In fact, I've also seen marquee used to describe an extremely permanent type of shop verandah over the front door of a picture (movie) theatre.
Cream tart is a kind of cake topped with whipped cream. Usually, I think, a sponge cake, but I may be wrong.
"Chuntering" or "chundering" (as I've heard it pronounced) means going on endlessly about something extremely trivial or boring in usage here in Godzone. I haven't heard it for years, though. To "chunder" also means to vomit, so it's probably a misuse of the word in relation to "chunter", although since "chunter" could also be referred to as "verbal diarrhoea", maybe there is a relationship after all?
For what it's worth ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11820
12/02/2000 3:22 PM
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the OED has chunter (chunner, chounter, chunder) as: To mutter, murmur; to grumble, find fault, complain. Also in extended use. 1870 E. Peacock Ralf Skirl. II. 117 Th' capt'n went away chunterin'. 1921 D. H. Lawrence Sea & Sardinia iv. 135 A thin old woman+was chuntering her head off because it was her seat. 1949 C. Fry Lady's not for Burning 27 You+fog-blathering, Chin-chuntering, liturgical,+base old man! 1955 D. Barton Glorious Life i. 19 Paul's telephone rang.+ There was long chuntering on the wire. 1957 ‘N. Shute’ On Beach i. 2 The baby stirred, and started chuntering and making little whimpering noises. 1965 Spectator 5 Mar. 295/3 An old man+chunters a bit of folk tune which the solo horn dreamily perpetuates. 1968 Autocar 25 Jan. 27/2 The Herald ‘chunters’ straight across the road in front of us. ...so I guess it's used for most any sort of going on and on. [M-W doesn't do chunter justice at all, having it simply as synonymous with mutter] p.s. - Max, this one will show up in wwftd real soon.
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#11821
12/02/2000 3:29 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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...so I guess it's used for most any sort of going on and on
Sounds about right, the Scottish version is "blether"
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#11822
12/02/2000 3:43 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>In New Zealand, "tent" and "marquee" are interchangeable. However, a marquee can also be, as you suggest, a large awning. In fact, I've also seen marquee used to describe an extremely permanent type of shop verandah over the front door of a picture (movie) theatre
Here, a tent tends to be the kind of thing one goes camping in, so the Wedding companies like to hire Marquees to make it sound grander, also in use at summer sporting events, in the years when we have summers. Marquees can be very grand but the main difference between the USA & UK (not sure about NZ?) is that weddings, until recently, have only been able to take place in a church or in a Registery Office, so the concept of getting married in one's parents' house has seemed rather strange until now. I always think a wedding reception in a marquee is a bit of a special event as only fairly rich families can a) afford them or b) have gardens big enough to cope. I'm not sure that they'd be too pleased if their expensive marquee was called a "tent". "Four Weddings and a Funeral" gives a fair range of "better off" weddings.
I'd tend to call the kind of thing that is attatched to the side of the house (or often, caravan) an awning. I think the ones on the side of shops are also called awnings but I'm sure that someone is trying to make more up-market ones called Marquees.
By the way I think up-market isn't used as a term in the USA - I saw someone use up-scale which may mean the same thing.
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#11823
12/02/2000 3:46 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I'm going to be staying at the Marriott Marquis on Broadway soon. I mentioned it to my friend from DC who was staying. "You can't stay there," she said, "until you learn to pronounce it properly!"
Any idea as to what I'm doing wrong?
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#11824
12/02/2000 3:51 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>And ... what the h--- is/are cream (creme) tarts?
Cream cakes is a generic term for anything that you get from a cake shop with cream in it. If it were made of sponge it would be a cream sponge. Tarts tend to be made with a pastry case. Individual strawberry or fruit tarts are popular and they would have a dollop of cream on top. I think that people would be more likely to refer to the kind of fruit, rather than the cream.
I rather suspect that the episode was written by a man! (ouch, waiting to be told I'm sexist)
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#11825
12/02/2000 4:11 PM
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In reply to:
I'm going to be staying at the Marriott Marquis on Broadway soon. I mentioned it to my friend from DC who was staying. "You can't stay there," she said, "until you learn to pronounce it properly!"
Any idea as to what I'm doing wrong?
it's hard to tell when you chunter like that.
does she want you to say 'mar key'? [as opposed to ma[r] kwis]
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#11826
12/02/2000 4:13 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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#11827
12/02/2000 4:17 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I just have to think de Sade rather than Queensbury.
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#11828
12/02/2000 8:36 PM
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Ha, Jo, march on over to the Marriott and pronounce it the REAL way. The A should be pronounce just like in the word MAD, not MAR, and the R should be ever so slightly rolled at the back of the throat. The KEY part is fine. You know, of course, that now you can tell your friend she has to learn to pronounce it properly before she is allowed to come visit you  .
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#11829
12/02/2000 8:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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veteran
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so I guess it's used for most any sort of going on and on
>bletherI think we'd talk about steam boats/trains (boats came to mind first) "chuntering along". It's a bit like "chugging" but consists of lots of little puffs of smoke rather than substantial dollops, if you see what I mean.  This could be a missing link! Oh, and agree with Jo - tents for camping, marquees for events (but can be applied to big army tents), awnings for canvas shelters afixed to buildings. Cream tarts are a class of cake, but if you were to pick a prime example it would be shortcrust pastry base topped with a little vanilla gunk (what's that called, Jo?) topped with a few strawberries topped with whipped cream.
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#11830
12/02/2000 8:38 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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bel, I'll have to call you before I set off to check I'm doing it just right - do you think they'll be ready for me!
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#11831
12/02/2000 9:09 PM
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Even better if they're not Jo. It's always great to make an impression! You can always give me a buzz, but I'm sure you'll be fabulous - especially since you do not seem like the shy, timid sort.
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#11832
12/02/2000 11:10 PM
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jmh wrote: Marquees can be very grand but the main difference between the USA & UK (not sure about NZ?) is that weddings, until recently, have only been able to take place in a church or in a Registery Office ...
My partner and I got married in March on our lawn ... I believe that there's been no restriction on where marriages can be performed in NZ for many years. Even allowed in a marquee, I guess!
I agree that "marquee" is used to drive the impression of a large, up-market tent ... you don't see circuses being held in marquees, do you?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11833
12/02/2000 11:12 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>My partner and I got married in March on our lawn
Congratulations!
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#11834
12/02/2000 11:15 PM
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Just saw another episode on NH PBS. They're cream cakes, and Lionel's favorite snack. He pulled some out of a cabinet and they appear to be a pre-packaged item. Ring any bells? Any Londoners on? The show's set there. wow
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#11835
12/03/2000 2:21 AM
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the Scottish version is "blether"
One suspects that the Scottish "blether" is the equivalent of the English English "blather" meaning to talk on and on without making much sense.
One further suspects that both are related in some way to "blabber" which is used in American English to mean pretty much what Brits mean when they say "blather."
P.S. Look, Jo, I made colours!
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#11836
12/03/2000 11:41 AM
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jmh wrote: >My partner and I got married in March on our lawn
Congratulations!
Thanks! However, you should note that the wedding followed a 16-year try-before-you-buy period. And the marriage was a business decision ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11837
12/03/2000 5:14 PM
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Ah. That explains the <partner>. Here PARTNER is used in only two ways: To represent someone with whom you are sharing a business/company OR To represent one or the other person in a homosexual relationships/weddings.
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#11838
12/03/2000 5:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>Partner
No it is definitely used here to mean "significant other" or, as you say, business partner. Like lots of words, it is more popular in some circles than others.
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#11839
12/04/2000 5:26 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11
stranger
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stranger
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Ah. That explains the <partner>. Here PARTNER is used in only two ways: To represent someone with whom you are sharing a business/company OR To represent one or the other person in a homosexual relationships/weddings.
Hey bel!
Maybe in Quebec! But not on the west coast of Canada!
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#11840
12/04/2000 6:47 AM
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Ah. That explains the <partner>. Here PARTNER is used in only two ways: To represent someone with whom you are sharing a business/company OR To represent one or the other person in a homosexual relationships/weddings.
I ran that one past SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed). She's still laughing ... thanks old son!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11841
12/04/2000 7:11 AM
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). She's still laughing ... thanks old son!Sacré bleu! Bel n'est pas un vieux fils, bel est une jeune fille!
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#11842
12/04/2000 8:58 AM
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Sacré bleu! Bel n'est pas un vieux fils, bel est une jeune fille!
Oops. Well, s/he was the one implying I didn't know the difference. What else can s/he expect? I'll have to go and check that I haven't made a terrible mistake!
Pardonnez-moi, mademoiselle belMarduk. Ma femme est bloody-well laughing toujours!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11843
12/04/2000 11:14 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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That's the best laugh I've had in ages!
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#11844
12/04/2000 12:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>Scottish "blether" is the equivalent of the English English "blather" meaning to talk on and on without making much sense.
Good try, Father Steve - love the colours!
Blether is a very everyday term for chat. Children will be told to stop blethering in class. People will meet for a blether. I hear it used almost daily. So I think it is less negative than "blabber"/"blather".
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#11845
12/04/2000 9:56 PM
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No offence taken CapK, but trust me on this one mon cher monsieur, I am indeed a she. I checked this morning and I still have a couple of protuberances by way of proof (and damn fine ones may I add ). Even more importantly, I am lacking some vital dangly bits that HEs are generally so fond of, whether metric or imperial.
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#11846
12/04/2000 10:16 PM
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Hey bel!
Maybe in Quebec! But not on the west coast of Canada!
Hi Drum,
Soooo many exclamation points. I am sure you are right Drum. Don't get upset. I often make a point of adding the note "here in Québec" or "the Québécois" when I post (you can look up my past posts in my bio if you like). The differences between Canadian and Québec mentalities (humour, language etc) have been discussed in the past (again, you can see it in my past posts). I realize there are differences but by now most people know where I am from so I don't always feel the need. Now, I will usually make a note of it when I mention something that is idiosyncratic to Québec.
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#11847
12/05/2000 1:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2000
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Hi bel, didn't mean to get upset but as Capt Kiwi says "SWMBO" is often refered to as my "partner" and and before you ask, she is missing the dangly bits while I am not! drum
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#11848
12/05/2000 7:48 AM
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Just out of interest, does anyone else remember where the term "SWMBO" came from? I'd expect the Poms to dive in here ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11849
12/05/2000 9:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
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old hand
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I checked this morning and I still have a couple of protuberances by way of proof (and damn fine ones may I add ).Mummy warned me about this sort of thing on the Internet. She said I'd get corrupted and evil women would lure me to meet them in bars and things (they never have, I'm still ruddy waiting!). So are you an incubus or a succubus? Or, from your profile, a databus?
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#11850
12/05/2000 9:14 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
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old hand
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Just out of interest, does anyone else remember where the term "SWMBO" came from?
First reference I can remember: H Rider Haggard's She. More familiarly latterly through the irrepressible, inimitable Rumpole of the Bailey.
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#11851
12/05/2000 10:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
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veteran
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>Partner
No it is definitely used here to mean "significant other" ..
Along with better half and other half. Any others?
I suppose "partner" has come into its own in that many more people live together and have kids without getting married these days. It's the official term for such a relationship, significant in that the relationship is officially recognised and can have an impact on benefits/taxes etc (usually a negative one).
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#11852
12/05/2000 1:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
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old hand
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old hand
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I have also noticed a resurgence in the once-twee-sounding "boyfriend" and "girlfriend". What goes around comes around, eh?
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#11853
12/05/2000 1:59 PM
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the U.S. census bureau came up with the irreproachable 'posslq' (pronounced pahs-'l-kyoo), which of course is an acronym. [person (of the) opposite sex sharing living quarters]
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#11854
12/05/2000 3:13 PM
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For you love me and I love you,
come and be my posslq.
Aenigma likes possum instead of posslq.
TEd
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#11855
12/05/2000 3:29 PM
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| There's nothing that I wouldn't do,
| If you would be my Posslq,
| You'd live for me and I for you
| If you would be my Posslq.
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| We'd live forever, you and me,
| In blessed posslq-ity!
-Charles Osgood
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#11856
12/05/2000 5:12 PM
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A Danish colleague (no, he wasn't a pastry, he was a statistician), once told me that in Denmark, the term "samlaversk" and "samlaverske" (male and female respectively) are used to cover the issue of "significant others" in Danish. Don't kill me over the Danish spellings, this was ten years ago!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11857
12/05/2000 5:51 PM
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Ah yes; I've lived with several Danish ladies. samlaversk than others.
TEd
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