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#118425 01/09/04 10:17 PM
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twins have been known to do it... most of them drop their private language by age 5, but there is a famous case of twins who persisited in 'speaking their own language well into their teens..

But would they have developed a language if held in silent isolation? Guess it would be an illegal experiment.



#118426 01/11/04 02:43 PM
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re:would they have developed a language if held in silent isolation? Guess it would be an illegal experiment.


illegal would be the least of it... are you a closet psychopath? it would seem you'd have to be to suggest such an experiment.

there have been, throught the ages, 'jungle boys', children accidently left, lost, abondon, who have grown up with out human contact. when 'recovered', these children, never develop language beyond the grunts and noises they learned while living with out the benefits of human contact.-the experiment has been done (accidentaly)

similarly, a young man who was born with sever catteract, and other eye problems, and learned to live as 'blind'(he could see light/dark/shadows), was subject to surgery that removed the catteracts, repaired eye muscles, and was then fitted with glasses.. His eyes worked. but he never learned to see.. he never developed 3D focus, he could not tell a cat from a dog, or horse from a cow (with out touching them)
he 'stepped over shadows on the street as if they were obsticles.. he couldn't 'get' that cars looked smaller when further away.. and kept mistaking them for toys..

the case was 'written up' most recently by Oliver Sacks, (don't have the book title handy), but Dr. Sacks points out, this kind of surgery was been tried before, and the results are always the same.(and there was a broadway play 10 year ago on the same case (only the play turned the man into a woman, and took other dramatic licence.)

children not only learn to talk, they learn to see...
because of the past failures, 'corrective surgery' for blindness is limited to people who have developed sight (and then lost it)- or children under the age of 5. we don't need to experiment on children to learn what we already know.


#118427 01/11/04 03:33 PM
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<i>llegal would be the least of it... are you a closet psychopath? it would seem you'd have to be to suggest such an experiment.</i>

Excuse me, but I was kidding. In part it was a reference not to feral children cases like Kaspar Hauser, but to an alleged experiment that a king in Ancient Egypt ran: he had two children raised in silence with mute servants caring for them. They started speaking Phrygian after a while or one of them at least uttered the Phrygian word for bread. See <A HREF="http://www.feralchildren.com/en/language.php" target="_new">http://www.feralchildren.com/en/language.php</A> about "forbidden experiment". Guess I have to remember to put in all the smiley faces for implied sarcasm. Take care.



#118428 01/11/04 07:31 PM
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jheem, I hope you don't mind: I'm going to make your link clickable. Fascinating!
http://www.feralchildren.com/en/showchild.php?ch=genie

[rueful smile e] At first I thought that "A HREF" was the Phrygian word for bread.


#118429 01/11/04 07:39 PM
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Guess I have to remember to put in all the smiley faces for implied sarcasm.

Or you have to wait (as I still am) for people to learn the silent language you're speaking.




#118430 01/11/04 07:41 PM
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Not a problem, I went back and fixed mine. I'm still getting the hang of AWADtalk's simplified markup. I think the word cited by Herodotus is bekos.


#118431 01/11/04 08:45 PM
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of troy...if you do remember that book title, I'd really like to know. It sound like an interesting read. I find the idea fascinating.


#118432 01/11/04 09:52 PM
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beuatiful bel, they gods must love you, the book was
An Anthropologist on Mars, (pub 1995) and on Dr Sacks' web page, they very essay is presented...
EDITtry it now-- then click on typewriter ((for writings), and find the book, then click on exerpt in left hand frame...
http://www.oliversacks.com/

you can read it for yourself!
(sorry for not checking the link..)
(i certainly would recommend the whole book--or anyone of his books.. and to meet him in person is a delight.. (just an informal book signing.. after a lecture.) he has a wonderful sense of humor and humanity about him.


#118433 01/11/04 11:36 PM
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...they gods must love you

Perhaps not as much as you think . I tried the link and it doesn't work right now.

I did go to the net-site of our local English bookstore and found that they have two paperback copies. The review looked quite interesting so I'll pop in and get it.

Thanks o.t.


#118434 01/13/04 06:44 AM
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Couldn't get your link to work, Jackie. Herodotus' story of King Psammetichus' experiment can be found at: http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Hdt.+2.2.1


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