#11636
11/30/2000 9:23 PM
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From today's AWAD mailing: [octopus (OK-tuh-pus) noun, plural octopuses or octopiOctopi?! And, where is the listing of octopodes? Perhaps Anu's alter ego (Jackie) could quiz him on this one for us. 
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#11637
11/30/2000 10:18 PM
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Yes, I liked today's word as well.
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#11638
12/01/2000 12:44 AM
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Q: How many would there be if there were two jazzoctopuses?
A: One too many.
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#11639
12/01/2000 6:29 PM
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In reply to:
Q: How many would there be if there were two jazzoctopuses?
A: One too many.
Two?? = hexadecimalopus! Or hexadecimal opus, which means, um, work in base sixteen?
Shoot me, quick!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11640
12/01/2000 6:31 PM
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I would shoot you quickly if only I could decide which of my many hands to use to pull the trigger.
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#11641
12/01/2000 7:07 PM
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Q: How many would there be if there were two jazzoctopuses?
A: One too many.At least you didn't say two too many.
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#11642
12/01/2000 7:43 PM
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Is octopus the onliest word's got three plurals?
Or
Is opera the other onliest word's got its own plural when it's already a plural?
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#11643
12/01/2000 9:58 PM
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#11644
12/01/2000 10:08 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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#11645
12/02/2000 12:17 AM
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Sheep too
And I thought it was only the New Zealanders who brought "sheep" into every conversation.
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#11646
12/02/2000 6:57 AM
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In reply to:
Sheep too
And I thought it was only the New Zealanders who brought "sheep" into every conversation.
Et ewe, Anna? I am sick and tired of people ramming sheep jokes down my throat at aevery opportunity, and I won't put tup with it any more - I refuse to have a baa of it. It's shear rudeness, wether you think so or not.
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#11647
12/02/2000 12:46 PM
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Annastrophic wrote:
And I thought it was only the New Zealanders who brought "sheep" into every conversation
Ah well, New Zealand is a great place to live. 40 million sheep can't be wrong, can they? Trouble is, you get fleeced by everyone and have the wool pulled over your eyes at every opportunity. Along with bad puns. But it's all a bit of a dag ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11648
12/02/2000 8:02 PM
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And I thought it was only the New Zealanders who brought "sheep" into every conversation.That's only because the Welsh don't talk about it.  mav, we're waiting!
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#11649
12/02/2000 8:13 PM
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Is opera the other onliest word's got its own plural when it's already a plural?
Nope, trust me to note that fish is its own plural, but talking about fishes ain't restricted to kids.
One from a pool of FishesonBikes
P.S. Nice to meet you Faldage.
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#11650
12/02/2000 9:12 PM
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Can the word HAIR be classified as it's own plural. You say HAIRS in some circumstances (eg. there were two hairs in my soup) and HAIR in others (he has a full head of hair).
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#11651
12/04/2000 3:51 AM
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enthusiast
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In reply to:
Is opera the other onliest word's got its own plural when it's already a plural?
Although I wouldn't have expressed the question in quite those words, I understood Faldage to be making a distinction between "got its own plural" and "is its own plural", i.e. that opera (works) is the plural of opus (a work), but opera is also used in the singular sense of a musical drama, for which the plural is, presumably, operas, as in "I have seen three operas this year." Interestingly enough, although explicit in their listing of the two senses of opera, the online dictionaries were strangely silent on the plural of "an opera". It appears that a Latin plural has become an Italian singular??
Agenda is a word that is a plural (of agendum), but is often pluralized itself to agendas. The latter smacks of misuse of Latin to me, but some dictionaries seem to have accepted it. dictionary.com tries to justify it like this: http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=agendas
(I even found the repugnant "agendums"!)
Doubtless there are other similar -um/-a/-as examples.
And humble apologies, Faldage, if I have misrepresented you.
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#11652
12/04/2000 11:14 AM
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In reply to:
Can the word HAIR be classified as it's own plural. You say HAIRS in some circumstances (eg. there were two hairs in my soup) and HAIR in others (he has a full head of hair).
Not really. English, thank goodness, doesn't bother with noun genders much, but the difference between countable nouns and uncountable nouns (aka mass nouns) is crucial. For example pig is countable (1 pig, 2 pigs), pork is uncountable (and so has no plural). Some nouns can be either depending on the exact meaning, e.g. paper (the substance) is uncountable, but paper (= document) is countable (She threw the papers into the air in despair). Similarly hair can mean an (uncountable) collection or mass (I ran my fingers through his hair absentmindedly) or a (countable) item (He found two blond hairs floating in the soup).
Bingley
Bingley
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#11653
12/04/2000 1:11 PM
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So whaddaya wanna do tonight?
And would sheep be an infinitely regressive plural?
Fish is the plural of a single species, e.g., three lake trout is three fish, fishes is used when the individual are of different species, e.g., a lake trout, a muskie and a rainbow trout would be three fishes. Naw, that doesn't taste right (thanks, xara, I like that phrase). Fishes is more generic. Lake trout, muskie and rainbow trout are three fishes
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#11654
12/04/2000 3:39 PM
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Not just opera and agenda, but what about the current corruption: media used as a singular (and then, even worse, ofttimes developing a 'regular' plural: medias).
And what about the word people, which is, in general, a non-countable (yet plural) word, and can itself be pluralised: "the peoples of southern India tend to share a fondness for coconut milk as a cooking medium."
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#11655
12/04/2000 6:43 PM
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Welcome, Faldage! Sorry belated--been an unwilling prisoner in the land of no connectivity again. Okay--if you've read much of this Board in older threads, you already know my mind wanders to the gutter pretty easily, so I have to ask: you said: So whaddaya wanna do tonight?
And would sheep be an infinitely regressive plural?Does the first statement lead into (ooh, Baaa-ad, Jackie!) the second?  Also--speaking of gutter: revealing yet more of my ignorance--I just found out from an article that that statement from an old post about lying in the gutter but looking up at the stars is on Oscar Wilde's statue.  Also--I am convinced that three different kinds of fish are still fish. -------------------------------------------------------- shanks, you put: "the peoples of southern India tend to share a fondness for coconut milk as a cooking medium."Have the media been informed of this?
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#11656
12/04/2000 7:46 PM
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Be warned that I am a Fool and as such I am not required to explain my cryptic remarks, but since I am new here I will say that the whaddaya wanna comment and the infinitely regressive comment were not meant to be linked in any way.
I stand by my distinction between the plurals fish and fishes.
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#11657
12/04/2000 9:01 PM
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I stand by my distinction between the plurals fish and fishes.
I can't confirm or deny, but this does make some sense if you compare it with "people" and "peoples".
But then . . . does "mooses" mean a group of different types of moose?
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#11658
12/04/2000 9:41 PM
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Moose, the beast, is both plural and singular. Mousse, the foamy stuff you put in your hair, is also plural and singular. Perhaps it is just a matter of what sounds better since mousse is a relatively new invention.
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#11659
12/04/2000 10:02 PM
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enthusiast
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In reply to:
Moose, the beast, is both plural and singular. Mousse, the foamy stuff you put in your hair, is also plural and singular. Perhaps it is just a matter of what sounds better since mousse is a relatively new invention.
Not sure that I agree with your reasoning or choice of words there, bel. I think mousse is an example of an uncountable mass of substance that Bingley referred to. I would say 1 moose, 2 moose, but never 1 mousse, 2 mousse. On the other hand, I might say "I had two different mousses to choose from this morning" which is probably a lazy abbreviation for "two different kinds of mousse". Same applies to a lot of uncountable mass nouns - try substituting honey, jam, oil, wheat, sand,.. for mousse (in the sentence, bel, not your hair!)
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#11660
12/05/2000 5:22 AM
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In reply to:
I might say "I had two different mousses to choose from this morning" which is probably a lazy abbreviation for "two different kinds of mousse". Same applies to a lot of uncountable mass nouns - try substituting honey, jam, oil, wheat, sand,.. for mousse (in the sentence, bel, not your hair!)
Don't put yourself down Marty, it's not a lazy abbreviation at all. It's just the way English works. Uncountable nouns, if their meaning allows it, can be made countable nouns with the meaning "different kinds of".
Beer of course could be substituted in the sentence and in your hair.
Bingley
Bingley
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#11661
12/05/2000 5:43 AM
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addict
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>Beer of course could be substituted in the sentence and in your hair.<
Waste of good beer!
(Of course, if you have any bad beer, do what you like with it...)
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#11662
12/05/2000 9:33 AM
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the difference between countable nouns and uncountable nouns
So far so good, but I still don't see where fish and sheep fit in here. If I am not mistaken, you would rather say "fish were plentiful in the sea" than "..was..".
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#11663
12/05/2000 11:03 AM
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you would rather say "fish were plentiful in the sea" than "..was..".
I think you could say both, wsieb.
"fish was plentiful in the area" treats "fish" as a general commodity.
Conversely - I don't know why - but "sheep was plentiful in the area" doesn't work at all.
Is it significant that you can say "I eat fish" but you wouldn't generally say "I eat sheep" ?
- As "lamb was plentiful in the area" sounds OK.
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#11664
12/05/2000 1:25 PM
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you wouldn't generally say "I eat sheep" ....because you can say "I eat mutton" - and also: "mutton was plentiful.." Certainly the commodity aspect is more relevant here than the "uncountable" property.- But, Bingley, is this linguistics or something else ?
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#11665
12/05/2000 1:33 PM
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If the plural of mouse is mice,
Is the plural of spouse spice?
wow
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#11666
12/05/2000 3:08 PM
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>..because you can say "I eat mutton"
No, I cannot say that :) I like Lambrusco with some meat dishes, but will not partake of Mutton Rothschild.
TEd
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#11667
12/05/2000 3:43 PM
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wow
You asked
If the plural of mouse is mice,
Is the plural of spouse spice?
According to Walt Kelly it was.
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#11668
12/05/2000 3:50 PM
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In reply to:
you wouldn't generally say "I eat sheep" ..
But you might say, as did Handel, "we like sheep".
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#11669
12/05/2000 4:05 PM
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Is the plural of spouse spice?
>According to Walt Kelly it was.
Was it him who said that "life is a variety of spice"?
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#11670
12/05/2000 9:04 PM
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Excuse my ignorance but a) who was Handel and b) why did he like sheep 
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#11671
12/05/2000 9:11 PM
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bel, you'll have to forgive them for flocking and going astray...
this from Handel's Messiah: "all we like sheep who have gone astray"
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#11672
12/05/2000 11:22 PM
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La belle belMarduk asked, sheepishly, In reply to:
Excuse my ignorance but a) who was Handel and b) why did he like sheep
Handel was a German composer who lived in London for much of his life, inflicting an awful lot of (in my opinion) relatively mediocre music on the unsuspecting populace. This was in the late eighteenth century, and he would have gone down big (again in my opinion) with the punks had it been late last century.
He wrote a well-known piece of music called "The Messiah", another bunch called "Fireworks Music" (I may have the title slightly wrong), and he apparently spoke English with a similar accent to Sergeant Schultz in Hogan's Heroes.
All of this clearly explains why he liked sheep.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11673
12/05/2000 11:27 PM
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This was in the late eighteenth century, and he would have gone down big (again in my opinion) with the punks had it been late last century. There were punks at the end of the 19th Century?
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#11674
12/05/2000 11:55 PM
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This really follows the "plurals" thread...
Some years ago I became aware of words used as a plural OF an existing plural. The only one I recall is a KINE of cattle - defined as (more or less) "A collective noun for multiple HERDS of cattle".
Furthermore, "Kine" also ties in with another plural/collective noun pertinent to this discussion - "MOB" - the Australian word for FLOCK (of sheep). Specifically, there's a uniquely(?) Australian (Northern Territory in particular - THE outback!!) phrase, "Big mobs". This is typically used as the laconic reply to a question (such as, "Did you catch any fish?) that would be more correctly answered, "Yes, many". The way I see it, KINE = BIG MOBS.
I'm sure there are others - what does one say for more than one SWARM of bees for instance?
stales
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#11675
12/06/2000 4:54 AM
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In reply to:
you wouldn't generally say "I eat sheep" ..
..because you can say "I eat mutton" - and also: "mutton was plentiful.."
Certainly the commodity aspect is more relevant here than the "uncountable" property.- But, Bingley, is this linguistics or something else?
Now, class , you remember what I was saying about some words being both countable and uncountable depending on the meaning? For example Beer (meaning the beverage or shampoo (according to taste -- can't stand the stuff myself, even the smell of it makes me feel ill)) and Beer/Beers (meaning types thereof). If we are referring to the animal (fish, chicken, rabbit, etc.) the word is countable, if we are referring to the meat we get from the animal the word is uncountable. So we can say "Fish is expensive" meaning the meat, or "Fish are expensive" meaning the cyclists given away as prizes at funfairs. As a separate issue, in some words the singular and plural forms are the same. So we "Six sheep were grazing in the field", or "Six fish were cycling by".
Bingley
Bingley
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