#11435
12/05/2000 3:49 PM
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>to-do list
and what 'action' do you take when you add to the list? "Hey Bel, make sure you to-do this..."
(too close to "ta-da" 8)
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#11436
12/05/2000 5:24 PM
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You know, I've never noticed but you are right. There is really no one action word that is used. Generally, we just say "put that on the to do list"
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#11437
12/05/2000 8:36 PM
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In reply to:
If you can verb an noun, can you noun a verb? I can't think of any examples.
There is a whole class of words of the form verb-prep (actually separated prefix but that's a whole nother question) such as takeoff, giveaway etc. I have a list I collected somewhere but can't seem to find it right quick. This is common in both English and Spanish (where it manifests itself as verb-noun, e.g. guardacostas for Coast Guard).
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#11438
12/06/2000 6:49 AM
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Maverick wrote: PS: the house name translates roughly as Cross of the Virgins - the name of the village is the impossible-looking EGLWYSWRW, but try rendering the W as U, and you can see the similarity to BelM's word for Church, thus betraying the Latin root of quite a bit of later Welsh.
You know, I never thought of that. But you're quite right of course. SWMBO and I spent a few days in Wales a couple of years ago and were absolutely stumped trying to pronounce the "Welsh" Welsh place names. Carnaervon and Harlech are fine, but as for the rest .... !
Wales is an absolutely stunning place, easily the most interesting part of Britain, at least for me. While it may have something to do with the number of sheep, I'd prefer to think it was the scenery and the people, who were great. It's certainly the only country I've ever been in where I have picnicked beside a defunct nuclear power station, and the only place in the world I've been to that cooks lamb better than in Godzone.
The language is also very musical. As you may have gathered, we were altogether gob-smacked by the country, and we intend to go back and spend more time there.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11439
12/06/2000 7:00 AM
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In reply to:
Wales is an absolutely stunning place, easily the most interesting part of Britain, at least for me. While it may have something to do with the number of sheep, I'd prefer to think it was the scenery and the people, who were great.
Interesting. My mother and stepfather found Wales the least enjoyable part of their last excursion to the British Isles. Mum (Kiwi born and raised) raved about Ireland, but said that she got tired of people in shops who were speaking English switching to Welsh as soon as she entered. Something similar is known to happen in the Hokianga - not exactly courteous.
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#11440
12/06/2000 7:55 AM
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In reply to:
...but said that she got tired of people in shops who were speaking English switching to Welsh as soon as she entered...
Something similar is known to happen in the Hokianga - not exactly courteous.
Max, we weren't on the tourist routes much ... back roads, little villages. One place we stayed at, a B&B attached to a restaurant in some place with a name that began with a "D" and ended with a spit, was hosting the Welsh equivalent of a CWI meeting. They were laughing and shouting in Welsh long before they saw us. The waitress worked for the local council during the day and said that some of the locals wouldn't even speak to her on the phone unless she used Welsh. Her English was halting, I don't think she was faking it.
The shops we went into were mostly local groceries/dairies, and they switched from Welsh to English to talk to us.
The only place where Welsh was flogged as a tourist concept was at Portmeirion, but we went there because of "The Prisoner", not because it was Welsh.
I remember going into a tearooms in Wairoa in the early 1970s and hearing Maori being used conversationally for the first time by the woman behind the counter and a customer or friend. Most Maori usage I hear these days is painfully "learned" with large gaps, much the same as me speaking French. The women in that tearooms made me understand why Maori was seen as an orator's language early in the 19th century. That tearooms has been my yardstick for the fluidity and expression of Maori speech ever since!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11441
12/06/2000 8:34 AM
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In reply to:
How interesting, One was aware that our Sovereign Lord Henry Eighth had developed a particularly fine system for the numbering of one's wives but one didn't realise that he had made a comparible contribution in the numbering of monarchs. Marvellous.
Would one be so kind as to provide one with furhter references so one can pursue the matter at one's leisure?
I did say vague feeling. I think I got it from the Guiness Book of Records at least a quarter of a century ago.
Bingley
Bingley
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#11442
12/06/2000 8:48 AM
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In reply to:
Most Maori usage I hear these days is painfully "learned" with large gaps, much the same as me speaking French
Watching one bulletin of Te Karere provides ample confirmation of that statement. I'm fortunate enough to have friends whose first language is Maori, and they find listening to much of today's te reo painful indeed.
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#11443
12/06/2000 1:52 PM
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Her English was halting, I don't think she was faking it...Definitely correct. I live just about on the landsker, which is an ancient divide representing the limit to which the indigenous Welsh people were pushed by waves of invaders. It still marks a blurry divide that tends to separate primarily English-as-first-language people to the south (Pembrokeshire is sometimes known as Little England Beyond Wales), and the northern area which is 65% Welsh-as-first-language. It is also marked by a ring of fabulous Norman castles, and a range of wildlife and scenery that is amongst the best in the UK. Worth checking out for anyone thinking of visiting. In the regions where Welsh is the first language, there is far less of a problem with rudeness than most parts of the world I have visited - when some anglos hear Welsh being spoken, they may not appreciate this is as natural as French in France, but it certainly is. A very high proportion of Welsh people are by nature friendly, communicative, and go out of their way to be helpful to visitors. They reserve scorn only for those who betray the prejudice of Empire. Hey, why am I telling you this - I moved to get away! Well, you are all mucho sympatico, so you are allowed to visit. Just staaaay awaaay from the sheep... A couple of sites to start at if interested:
http://www.pembrokeshirecoast.org/
http://www.pembrokeshire-online.co.uk/index.htm
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#11444
12/07/2000 4:08 AM
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Maverick wrote: Hey, why am I telling you this - I moved to get away! Well, you are all mucho sympatico, so you are allowed to visit. Just staaaay awaaay from the sheep...
It's okay, Mav, we took our own. We do have something like 8,000 of them to choose from.
The place I referred to in my post was Dolgellau. Begins with a "D" and ends with a spit, like I said! Is this in the 65% area where people Welsh rather than welch?
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#11445
12/07/2000 1:15 PM
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Yep. A fine area to walk and wander in the wilderness. Maaarvellous! 
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#11446
12/07/2000 6:27 PM
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Mav, stop acting the goat!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#11447
12/08/2000 1:57 AM
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In reply to:
That was a good get" is an example of noun verbing, one that sports commentators seem to like. Then I checked Merriam-Websters online dictionary only to find that it lists "get" as a noun with one meaning being "a return of a difficult shot in a game (as tennis)". I haven't researched it further, but I'd bet it originated from nouning a verb. There are probably a lot more like it.
A try in rugby, perhaps? As I understand it, in the early days of the game, when a player crossed the opposition's line and dotted the ball down, he was allowed to try to kick a goal, hence "a try".
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#11448
12/08/2000 2:03 AM
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I'm not sure if anybody has already mentioned this one, but the increasing popularity of digital cellphones has led to the noun verbing I used above. The practice of sending text messages via cellphone is now called "texting" - a contraction of "text messaging." The largest digital cell network here in NZ offers the service free on Wednesdays, so you will often hear someone say, "I'll text you on Wednesday", especially if that someone is under the age of 20. "Texting" has become so rampant that examination supervisors have had to confiscate cellphones to prevent exam answers being "texted" to candidates. Nope, frequent use doesn't make it sound any better.
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#11449
12/08/2000 3:15 AM
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I would like to condemn whoever started using this word to mean that they are convinced of something. Perhaps
Father Steve might have something to say about this: where I've seen it is in religious literature. Our former pastor would occasionally say this word, causing my teeth to be on edge. This word is being used as a verbified form
for conviction. Simple example: I am convicted that the sky is blue. Stupid!!!!! (Sorry, Auntie, I know you wish your sky would be blue.)
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#11450
12/08/2000 3:24 AM
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I am convicted that the sky is blue. Stupid
Definitively! That's a little mannerism of mine, consciously using "definitively" for "definitely". I started doing it around at 10 years of age, and it has become ingrained. I wonder if the misuse of "convicted" had similar origins.
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#11451
12/08/2000 8:23 AM
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Max admits Definitively! That's a little mannerism of mine, consciously using "definitively" for "definitely"..
Well, you therefore stand convicted of a definitive abuse of the English language.
One of the verbal "tics" I personally loathe is the use of "typically" to falsely reinforce your point of view. For instance, "Typically, the moon is made of Stilton cheese". Grrrrrrrrrrrrr
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#11452
12/08/2000 7:08 PM
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> "get" as a noun with one meaning being "a return of a difficult shot in a game (as tennis)" That's not a very good dictionary. Get is either the act of begetting or the product of such act, according to my dictionary. I admit to being partial to the former, not being a tennis player. So what's love got to do with it  ?
TEd
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#11453
12/08/2000 7:10 PM
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I had to stop using mine for that purpose, since everything got garbled, and I didn't want to be known for textual deviation.
TEd
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#11454
12/08/2000 7:20 PM
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Jackie:
When I read your post I was amazed that someone could use convict in this manner, and assumed it was a backformation from conviction. I consulted my dictionary, and found the first definition of convict to be to find or prove guilty, but the second is interesting: to convince of wrongdoing or sinfulness. So I went to convince, and found there as an obsolete usage: to convict!!!
To me, there's something even uglier than what you cited: I convinced the person to stop his action. ARGH!!! convince is to cause someone to believe something, not to coerce!
Thanks for leading me to look. I learned something very interesting!
TEd
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#11455
12/09/2000 4:49 AM
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In reply to:
I convinced the person to stop his action. ARGH!!! convince is to cause someone to believe something, not to coerce!
Surely convince here is being used to mean persuade, not coerce. An unnecessary extension of meaning, perhaps, but not quite as big a stretch as you make out TEd.
Bingley
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#11456
12/09/2000 7:24 AM
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Bingley commented: Surely convince here is being used to mean persuade, not coerce. An unnecessary extension of meaning, perhaps, but not quite as big a stretch as you make out TEd.Bingley, this is what TEd's example is showing, although grammatically it may not have been perfect. If you phrase it: "I convinced (x) that he should cease carrying out his action", then you are affecting his belief that his action is correct. In fact, "Convince" seems to be rarely used in any other context. "I convinced her that completing her degree would be to her long-term benefit" seems ordinary usage. "I'm convinced that I'm correct" is tautological, but usual usage. Problem? CK
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#11457
12/11/2000 5:25 AM
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In reply to:
Bingley commented: Surely convince here is being used to mean persuade, not coerce. An unnecessary extension of meaning, perhaps, but not quite as big a stretch as you make out TEd.
Bingley, this is what TEd's example is showing, although grammatically it may not have been perfect.
Capital Kiwi, I agree that this is what TEd's example shows, but I understood him to be saying that he objected to the example on the grounds that convict was being used in the example to mean coerce, but I don't think it is. Perhaps TEd could clarify what exactly he is objecting to.
Bingley
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#11458
12/11/2000 4:28 PM
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>In reply to:
I convinced the person to stop his action. ARGH!!! convince is to cause someone to believe something, not to coerce!
Surely convince here is being used to mean persuade, not coerce. An unnecessary extension of meaning, perhaps, but not quite as big a stretch as you
make out TEd.
-=------
Bingley:
Let me try to be a little more clear. I am convinced of Bingley's right to believe in the deity of his choice. But it is grammatically incorrect for me to say, I convinced Bingley to leave the church of Itzenism. You have heard of the church of Itzenism, haven't you??
I can say I persuaded you to do something, or I coerced you to do something, but technically speaking convince should not be followed by an infinitive.
TEd
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#11459
12/11/2000 6:47 PM
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*sigh* - Into the fray again ... TEd said: I can say I persuaded you to do something, or I coerced you to do something, but technically speaking convince should not be followed by an infinitive.Two things - 1. Usage changes. I personally agree with your comments here. I would say "I convinced Bingley that his adherence to the heretical creed of Itzenism was counter to the attitude of every right-thinking Boarder". 2. Others (not I) would see absolutely nothing wrong with me having said "I convinced Bingley to give up attending the High Temple of Itzenism because his adherence to the creed ... yadda, yadda". We're back to what is technically correct and what is common usage. Just remember that in experimental biology that even given a perfect environment of heat, nutrition, water and other life-related factors, the organism will do as it damned well pleases. Language is such an organism! 
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#11460
12/12/2000 4:20 AM
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In reply to:
I can say I persuaded you to do something, or I coerced you to do something, but technically speaking convince should not be followed by an infinitive.
"I coerced you to do something" jars on me far more than "I convinced to do something". I would say "I coerced you into doing something" (not that I would, mind you, not being the coercive type), or is this another point where usage differs in different places?
PS. All right, what is the church of Itzenism?
Bingley
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#11461
12/12/2000 5:51 AM
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Hi Bingley, up there in sunny Jakarta. You asked PS. All right, what is the church of Itzenism?
Frankly, I dunno. TEd would be your best resource for this. I took it as being a contraction of "It's an -ism". But then, cryptic crosswords have bored me silly for years, and this looks like a cryptic clue ...
So, go on, make my day. Coerce me!
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#11462
12/12/2000 10:35 AM
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>PS. All right, what is the church of Itzenism? I was hoping you would ask [grin] Itzenism is a California church with a very simple creed: They believe in an afterlife in a heaven called Itzen. Everyone who belongs to the church goes to Itzen upon death. Period. No exceptions. I had two friends, Durward and Alexander, who were twin brothers. They grew up in the Twin Cities, married twin sisters, and went to work in California, where they were attracted to the simplicity of Itzenism. Unfortunately, they were whacked by a semi while out on a ride on their tandem bicycle. They are now buried under a single headstone that reads: Alex and Dur Souls in Itzen What the HELL happened to the last three words??? I am mortified!
TEd
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#11463
12/12/2000 5:49 PM
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Everyone who belongs to the church goes to Itzen upon death. Period. No exceptions.
I had two friends, Durward and Alexander, who were twin brothers. They were attracted to the simplicity of Itzenism. Unfortunately, they were whacked by a semi while out on a ride on their tandem bicycle. They are now buried under a single headstone that reads: Alex and Dur Thanks, TEd, very funny. Perhaps the "Three-in-one Pun" thread should be renamed the Good Laugh Archipelago?
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#11464
12/17/2000 7:17 AM
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In the 13 December 2000 issue of Medscape General Medicine, George D. Lundberg, MD, criticized the low rate of nonforensic autopsies conducted in America. He is pleased that a few agencies counter this trend and writes: "Fortunately, the Veteran's Administration, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, the Health Care Financing Administration, and selected others still care and are efforting a turnaround."
Efforting?
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#11465
12/17/2000 7:34 AM
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FS plaintively wails Efforting?.
Perhaps the man meant effecting. Or the article was misspelt, 'or' instead of 'ec'?
[Trying to be kind emoticon]
Or, [here's the bit I like emoticon] the MD was using efforting instead of effecting as a form of effortless affectation intended to effect a favourable impression of his efforts amongst his effective audience.
How do you like them apples?
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#11466
12/17/2000 1:12 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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>efforting
Doctors are not well known for their command of the English language (excluding a few like Jonathan Miller who have made it their profession). I suspect that they have to learn too much technical stuff (Latin names for anatomy, drugs etc) to have time to read the kind of literature that enhances our use of language. I read lots of doctors' letters, they do not make pleasant reading. I'm sure that part of the problem stems from the use of a dictating machine and too high a volume of output to allow much time to correct non-technical errors.
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#11467
12/18/2000 12:50 PM
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lots of doctors' letters, they do not make pleasant readingTrue. Lots of doctors' letters don't even add up to recognisable words
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#11468
12/19/2000 7:51 AM
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Mav says: True. Lots of doctors' letters don't even add up to recognisable words.You think you jest? A doctor I went to many moons ago wrote so badly that the pharmacist had to ring him to get it translated into pharmacist speak. And I still couldn't understand it.
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