#11150
11/27/2000 1:07 AM
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Father Steve's thread on the "Saracens at the door" made me think of how often we fall back on expressions we learn over the years. In a few words the expressions are meant to relay a set of information that a paragraphe would be needed to convey.
"I would eat chocolate off a pig's back" ...you feel like eating chocolate (or whatever else) SO much that even if it was on a pig's back you'd eat it.
BUT, if I think of many expressions I was brought up with, I realize that what is perfectly clear to me and mine, may not be clear or pertinent to others.
"I wouldn't trade it for a piece of land." ...even if you offered me a WHOLE farmstead I wouldn't give up the thing the person wants from me. Now, unless you were brought up in farming country, where land is quite valuable, this would really have no impact on you at all.
What expressions do you commonly use?
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#11151
11/27/2000 3:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2000
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Up to this point in my life, I have purposely tried to avoid using slang and such expressions as you refer to. At middle age, I find my parents' folksy expressions frequently coming to mind, and now, I value them and occasionally make use of them. I thought their usage would paint me as a country bumpkin; now, I see it more as a matter of undeniable heritage! I've also meticulously avoided adopting trendy, current idiom because I thought it often impeded, rather than aided, communication. Anymore I try to let myself use the expressions that I find pleasing and appropriate, instead of considering them all to be out of bounds. Besides, I appreciate such turns of phrase when others are speaking or writing. They add color. And I don't want to be speaking all in bland, neutral beige!  As for expressions I commonly use -- I am scratching my head and will have to get back to you on that!
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#11152
11/27/2000 4:17 AM
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belM.,
I've always been one who picks up others' expressions quite easily.
Here are a few I've picked up from my Tennessee relatives:
What's that got to do with the price of green cheese on the moon?
Love (someone) to pieces.
Slow as molasses.
One that has perturbed some people of British or British-offshoot origin is 'scared to death', or even 'scared half-to-death'. Apparently, Europeans think this means literally, whereas my friends here and I just mean it as an indicator that we were more than a little startled.
My father would say a summer day was "hotter than
Billy-be-damned". (I've no idea who poor Billy was!)
I just read that Guinness (Records, all you Anglo-sousers!)
has created a--what-else--world's smallest internet ad. It is shown to fit on a bee's knee, to indicate that it is "the bee's knees".
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#11153
11/27/2000 4:59 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347
enthusiast
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Jackie, I'm not sure if you (and The Guinness BoR) use the expression differently from the one I know, or if I'm just missing the joke in the advertising campaign. I'm familiar with something being "the bee's knees" if it's the best. I'll concede it seems a really odd compliment, but I don't associate it in any way with size, per se. We'd use the expression "a bee's dick" (ruder form of "a bee's whisker" which is also used) for something tiny, often in the sense of a small margin ("he missed by a bee's dick"). http://www.artistwd.com/joyzine/australia/strine/b.htm Apologies to the AWAD Filth Police for approaching the gutter again, but that expression is fairly common slang here, and not very high on the obscenity scale. While we're on the subject of insects' knees, I am reminded of the standard yardstick for shortness, as expressed in the phrase "knee-high to a grasshopper".
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#11154
11/27/2000 5:45 AM
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Jackie, I'm not sure your expressions are unique to Kentucky. In my part of the world we said, "What's that got to do with the price of eggs." We also used "Love you to pieces" (but not often being an undemonstrative lot). "You scared me to death" or "half to death" was and still is very common to say you startled me or made me jump.
Bingley
Bingley
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#11155
11/27/2000 8:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
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old hand
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For some reason, the only British/London expressions I can think of seem to have elements of the salacious or scatological about them.
A piece of piss, for instance, is a phrase referring to a task that is very easy to do. Why it should have taken this form I don't know.
New laddism (as in magazines like Maxim etc) have popularised the dog's bollocks - similar in usage to 'the bees knees'.
Here's another bizarre one - getting on my tits - to mean 'getting on my nerves', or 'irritating me'. Why? Not a clue.
My own 'what does that have to do with the price of...' variant is 'fish'.
I will not bore you with oodles of Bombay slang - since so much of it is not English based.
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#11156
11/27/2000 1:58 PM
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The standard response to useless information in NY is "that and a subway token will get you someplace" this is as old as the subways, and still in use.
and while I am city born and bred, as were both my parents, things are still "as crooked as a rams horn"
but I never told my children that their rooms looked "like the wreck of the Hesperis"
when I first went to London ‘70, and saw Turner's "Wreck of the Hesperis" I was in awe it still moves me–such beauty! Somehow "the wreck of the Hesperis" no longer seemed the thing to call a room with a few bits of clothes to be chucked into the hamper!
and I don't complain either that their rooms are like "dens of iniquity" When I learned what a den of iniquity was, I was of mix emotions–a bit shocked, and jealous– I wished my room had been a bit more like a den of iniquity, and not just littered with soda cans and popcorn after a gossip fest!
When my kids where young, both of us (ex and I) made a point of using as wide a vocabulary as we could, to make our kids aware. At one point, late on a weekend morning, my daughter was told to "get up out of bed with alacrity" she rolled over and told her father, if Alacrity wanted to get up, it was fine, but she wanted to sleep longer!
Its pretty hard to retain a stern parent demeanor when you're laughing as hard as we were!
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#11157
11/27/2000 4:24 PM
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"Nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs" "Running around like a chicken with its head cut off" "Older than dirt" "... since Hector was a pup" "... in a coon's age" "In hog heaven" "Happier than a pig in s@#t (or mud)" "A woman needs a man like a fish..." oh, never mind
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#11158
11/27/2000 5:11 PM
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Anna, all of these rang a bell with me. Do you know, when I was a child, I watched my father take hold of a chicken by its head, then swing it around until the body separated from the head--and the body did run around in ragged circles for a couple of minutes. Ah, youth--I only felt a
slight revulsion then--now it would make me sick.
One of our shut-out Brits says he feels like he has been
"sent to Coventry". What is that--gaol? Speaking of British sayings (?): my mother used the phrase "carrying coals to Newcastle".
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#11159
11/27/2000 6:33 PM
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and the body did run around in ragged circles for a couple of minutes.As a child, I used to think it was fun to watch our chickens actually flying for a minute or so after decapitation.  
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#11160
11/27/2000 9:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
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veteran
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veteran
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One of my old friends had one which my wife and I have adopted. Speaking of someone who talks big, we would say, "if B...s..t was music, he'd be a brass band."
Then there is the judgment that something is as useful as tits on a boar hog. (For the animal lovers.)
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#11161
11/27/2000 9:39 PM
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No idea of the origin but to be "sent to Coventry" means no one speaks to you or acknowleges your presence. It's my understanding that it is common in English public (US private) schools. The practice was indulged in  in school I attended but teachers put immediate stop to it saying it was too cruel for the minor social offenses perpetrated by grammar school children. Here are common bits of animal-based slang off the top of my head: scarce as hen's teeth; sick as a dog; raining cats and dogs; lower than a snake's belly; horny as a two-peckered billy goat. A bit scatalogical but succinct. Sorry if anyone finds it offensive. It is a very old saying. WOW
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#11162
11/28/2000 3:16 AM
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How about "a day late and a dollar short"? Where on earth did that arise?
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#11163
11/28/2000 2:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
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member
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>>> "a day late and a dollar short"<<<
too little too late
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#11164
11/28/2000 3:24 PM
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here's a whole site full of phrases -- I can't speak to the veracity of the listed origins... http://www.shu.ac.uk/web-admin/phrases/list/
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#11165
11/28/2000 5:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 197
member
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#11166
11/29/2000 1:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 56
journeyman
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journeyman
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"I don't want to be speaking all in bland, neutral beige!"
Onya sista, i couln't agree more. Sure, correct spellun an gramar has it's place, but lets face it, it's the use of expressions, slang and colloquialisms that help provide a richness and texture to our daily communications. I'm sick to death of spending my days writing succint technical reports, give me a little breathing space and let me go with the flow here. At the risk of being howled down i'll give you my 2 cents worth. The ants pants and the ducks nuts are both perfectly splendid examples of... ummm... gee i'm not really sure, but they sound nice.
tongue in cheek, now that's another that comes to mind.
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#11167
11/29/2000 2:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11
stranger
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stranger
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Here are some expressions my mom used to use: #1)"My God all hemisphere!!" (Don't know if anyone else ever said that!) #2) "I wouldn't say 'Boo' to him." (Meaning she was slighting someone.) #3) "You kids would make a preacher swear!" (Voicing exasperation.) #4) "He's carrying on to beat the band." (He's upset, and making an excessive fuss.) #5) "She talks to hear her head rattle." (Said of someone given to mindless prattle.) #6) "She would cut off her nose to spite her face." (Said of a spiteful person.) #7) "He thinks the sun rises and sets in her." (Devoted to his beloved.) And, the way my dad described me as a kid who was crazy over horses -- #8) "She eats, sleeps, and breathes horses!"
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#11168
11/29/2000 2:28 AM
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ShyHeart, your #7 reminds my of something my Southern grandma used to say: "He thinks she hung the moon."
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#11169
11/29/2000 3:13 AM
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Here's one I recall my father's using although if it was original to him or not I know not. In regard to a person with lots to say without much thought behind the words : "He suffers from a constipation of the mind and a diarrhea of the mouth." Anyone else heard that? Or similar? I know I keep asking stupid questions  but on the upside I believe you're never too old to learn especially when you are lucky enough to run with erudite company. WOW
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#11170
11/29/2000 3:53 AM
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>"My God all hemisphere!!" (Don't know if anyone else ever said that!)
...don't think I ever heard that, but I did know someone who said "If that ain't the World's Fair!" when he was exasperated.
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#11171
11/29/2000 3:59 AM
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>constipation of the mind and diarrhea of the mouth
this one is fairly common (and gets some google hits!)
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#11172
11/29/2000 7:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11
stranger
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stranger
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Here are a couple my father uses frequently: That is as useless as balls on a sow (or tits on a bull)
Or one my brother always uses: Hold this while I call a policeman.
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#11173
11/29/2000 7:13 PM
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Oooo, maybe someone can explain this one... I don't know him from a hole in the wall (meaning you have no idea who the person is). and for all ayleurs (sorry Jackie ) who are cuckoo over AWAD, we are all... a few bricks short of a load and the elevator doesn't go to the top. And when the elevator does go to the top, what do we find? Bats in the belfry.
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#11174
11/29/2000 9:13 PM
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ayleurs ?? Please elucidate for newcomers. All I could find in OE was something about Grandfather suing because he was dispossessed of some land. wow
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#11175
11/29/2000 9:43 PM
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In reply to:
ayleurs??
Alas! "Ayleur" was derived from Anything You Like Except Unanimous - one of the suggestions given for an appellation fitting for participants here. I liked the sound of it, and its intrinsic paradox, but, there was almost unanimous animus toward the term, and it shrivelled away. 
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#11176
11/29/2000 9:55 PM
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max, she has a point (and I'm surprised this didn't come up before); ayle is an obsolete word for grandfather!
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#11177
11/29/2000 11:03 PM
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max, she has a point (and I'm surprised this didn't come up before); ayle is an obsolete word for grandfather!
Kewl! Does that make an ayleur a really ancient grandfather?
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#11178
11/30/2000 12:47 AM
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Check out ayle in Oxford English and it will send you to the var aiel. Then see if you can figure out the definition on one, fast read-thru. Should I post this and take the chace of being the object or ridicule...oh, why not, one must keep one's pals amused! wow
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#11179
11/30/2000 2:01 AM
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We use aďeul / aďeule when speaking of our grandfather / grandmother, but usually when singling them out to someone as the eldest of the family (eg. that person over there is the aďeul of our family).
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#11180
11/30/2000 2:23 AM
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speaking of tangled webs (weren't we?), the 2nd OED citation for aile reads thusly:
c1386 Chaucer Knt.'s T. 1619, I am thyn Aiel redy at thy wille.
the 1st citation is almost indecipherable, is this what you were referring to Ann?
1377 Langl. P. Pl. B. xv. 317 To Šiue fram Šowre eyres · ţat Šowre ayeles Šow lefte. [note the Icelandic thorn!]
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#11181
11/30/2000 3:01 AM
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
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> ţat Šowre ayeles Šow lefte. [note the Icelandic thorn!] And here's me thinking it was only useful for emoticons :-ţ Can't think where I got that idea, tsuwm 
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#11182
11/30/2000 8:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
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old hand
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Love the thorn - though presumably you will allow those (like me) with less comprehensive type sets, to replace it with 'th'?
In any case, in the Langland citation, isn't the meaning 'ails'? Or have I missed the point? Perhaps an old person (see Bel's post) is an ailing person?
Anyway - I'm glad to see the resurrection of ayleurs - when I am old and grey and sitting by the fire, I shall think of thee...
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#11183
11/30/2000 11:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
addict
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addict
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Incidentally, has anyone ever heard of a grandmother clock?
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#11184
11/30/2000 1:53 PM
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Absolutely! A grandmother clock is a smaller, less expensive, usually less ornate version of a Grandfather's clock. In UK I believe it's a case clock.
There's an old song
"The Grandfather's clock was too large for the shelf/so it stood eighty years on the floor/ It was taller by half than the old man himself/ but it weighed not a pennyweight more" ....
there's a bit in there I forget....it ends with :
"...but it stopped /short/never to go again when the old man died."
Ah, sigh, sure and it brought a tear to the eye of an older, more sentimental generation.
I'm sure you'll get more on clocks from the TAGG. Aloha, wow
PS who wants to hazard a guess on TAGG ...my try at a new acronym. Aloha wow
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#11185
11/30/2000 3:33 PM
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There's an old song
"The Grandfather's clock was too large for the shelf/so it stood eighty years on the floor/ It was taller by half than the old man himself/ but it weighed not a
pennyweight more" ....
there's a bit in there I forget....it ends with :
"...but it stopped /short/never to go again when the old man died."
i have heard this song, it was written some time after the US Civil war, and the author other songs are well known...
Any barbarshop quartettes out there? About 20 years ago, a folk music show on WNYC, Woody's Children, (public radio) did a whole show on the songs of the man....
he also wrote some patriotic/propoganda songs for union -- though grandfathers clock was a later song.
the line "but it stopped /short/never to go again when the old man died." was part of the refrain (burden)
the only other song i remember for a series, was a related show about political songs that consists entirely of versions of "Rosen the bough" (For Lincoln and liberty too!)
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#11186
11/30/2000 3:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Pooh-Bah
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>In UK I believe it's a case clock. Funny, I've been told that before by an American friend but I've always called them gradfather/grandmother clocks, depending on size. I think that you are right, technically, they are called long case clocks but they are colloquially known as grandfather clocks. http://www.grandfatherclockshop.co.uk/
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#11187
11/30/2000 4:33 PM
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I picked up "long case clock" watching the experts on the British edition of "Antiques Roadshow." I'm fortunate in that in my area we get Public Television from Maine, Massachusetts and New Hampshire! The British "Roadshow" airs on both the Boston Public Television Station and the New Hampshire one. wow
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#11188
11/30/2000 7:20 PM
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>.I don't know him from a hole in the wall
This may well be a takeoff on the phrase: Didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground." Years ago I ran across a humorous book of puns, each one a shaggy dog story built around the phrase I quoted. One of them was about the novice yachtsman who went aground and drowned after making a navigation mistake off Nantucket. His final ship's log entry read "Didn't know Mass. from a shoal in the sound." Another one was about the illiterate former slave who was sent to retrieve by stealth the body of his former master, a collateral descendant of George Washington, who had died in a Union POW camp. He brought back by mistake the body of a man named Washinsky, leading him to lament "Didn't know massa from a pole in the ground."
I guess you get the picture. I was raised in a demented household, which explains my tendency to nefandity (with apologies to tsuwm if nefandity isn't a real word: it should be.)
TEd
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#11189
11/30/2000 7:24 PM
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WOW:
There was a great deal of discussion about ayleurs; some people loved it, others did not. I've assumed all along that those who hated it are probably cat-kickers too.
OK, tsuwm, is that as nefandous a pun as you are likely to get??? GRIN!!!
TEd
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