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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
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Not to change the subject--you all keep schwahing and octopodeaning all you want--but I began to think about sjmaxq's observations on the aesthetic appeal of millennia, and I began to wonder about pandemonium:
So I looked it up on onelook.com. It appears to be a regular old noun. One pandemonium--and I suppose one could be pressed to visit several pandemoniums. There wasn't a single listing of 'pandemonia.' Why not? (I know this is going to be one of those Greek explanations, but please do go ahead.)
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Google shows 1400 hits on pandemonia but they seem to have other excuses for being* than being the plural of pandemonium. Pandemonium is one of those uncountable thangs. Either it's there or it ain't. It's not even like you'd say there was a pandemonium in the marketplace yesterday. With the one we had in the Forum last week, that's two pandemonia this month alone.
*One hit was a reference to Prehysterical Pogo (in Pandemonia) and there's apparently a computer game Pandemonia. There was also a reference to what may be a goddess named Pandemonia, but that would be feminine singular, not neuter plural.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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As you say, it doesn't really pluralise very easily. A quick look at Google suggests that pandemoniums is usually an error for pandemonium's.
The word was coined (sounds so much nicer than made up, doesn't it?) by Milton as the name of the city of all demons in his description of Hell in Paradise Lost.
Bingley
Bingley
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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the city of all demons
Of course! [slaps palm to forehead] Very cool, Bingley. Thanks for that.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Pandemonium = the city of all demons? Cool! [admiring look e]
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Same same in Eric by Terry Pratchett, which, coincidentally, I just started reading last night. My library doesn't have many of the discworld series. Any recommendations? The ones I remember seeing were Reaper Man, Small Gods, Interesting Times, Soul Music, Maskerade, The Last Continent, The Last Hero There may have been a few more but that's all I can remember.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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"Guards, Guards, Guards" the City Watch trilogy, and Pyramids. I'm a fan of anyone who can come up with Carpe Jugulum as the family motto of a vampire!
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Just remembered a personal bug bear. one person, two people. So where did we come up many persons. It has the same numerical sense and Onelook defines it as the formal or legal plural but it lacks the idea of group or inclusiveness that people contains. I hear it more and more in sentances that used to use people or other substitutes eg any persons arriving rather than any people or anyone. It seems to emphasize the separateness of those involved, a cold word to my mind, not used for it's formal meening but as a symptom of the decreasing connectedness we see today. [stepping down of soapbox e]
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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They *are different words. Why one should be the plural of the other I don't know. I think historically the term people (fr. Latin populus{singular!}) has connoted a greater degree of unity among its members. Or else people would refer to the group and persons to the individual members of the group.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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They are differsnt words Understood, but I still find the change in popular usage an interesting if rather sad reflection of society by its language.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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sad reflection of society
Do you not hear people at all? I should think that limiting the usage of people to mean the group and persons to mean the members of the group would be a useful distinction. I don't know if it is being used that way, but I would rather hear that sort of distinction being made than just accepting the idea that it's one person, two or more people.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I do here "people' but I often here them say persons where I would find people more appropriate. Eg. making a reservation and hearing "How many persons in the party?" I can't think of a specific instance at the moment, unfortunately.
I think if they didn't use the words as interchangable it wouldn't bug me.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I associate the use of persons outside a legal context with speakers/writers from the USA, and somewhat less definitely with attempts to avoid sexist language.
Bingley
Bingley
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Same in Eric by Terry Pratchett, which, coincidentally, I just started reading last night. My library doesn't have many of the discworld series. Any recommendations? ~ consuelo
He has written a lot of discworld books now. Some time since I read it, but I liked 'Small Gods'. The concept of gods competing for worshippers in order to increase their power is maybe not new but he puts some interesting twists in there.
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