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Paul "The Pride of Cornell" Wolfowitz, in a comment on the recently squashed plan to offer trading in terrorism futures, seemed to this tin ear to have used the word imaginive. Googling turns up only 22 hits, so it may have been a case of Wolfy mushmouth, but it got me wondering about the -at- in imaginative vs. the -at- in preventative. Why does the one belong and the other not? AHD on-line is not too helpful, giving etymologies for neither imaginative nor preventive. Any ideas?
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imaginative vs. the -at- in preventative
I've got no problem with either form - is this another SBACL issue where you guys use preventive and I say tomahto?
separated by a common luggage
edit: ooh, just seen the relative* dates of the two forms... interesting. *Or should that be relive?!
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At a guess, 'imaginative' comes from imaginatus, the past participle of the Latin verb imaginor, while 'preventive' comes from praeventus, the past participle of the Latin verb praevenio. In other words the -at- in imaginative has always been there, while the -at- in preventative is a modern innovation and therefore to be resisted to the last drop of the last prescriptivist's blood.
Bingley
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Thanks, Bingley. So we have to know Latin grammar to speak a Germanic language properly. How does this impact on orient(ate)? A little research shows the verb to be orior with a past participle of ortus
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past participle of ortus
Ortus to be argumentificating about what's in the past?
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Ortus to be argumentificating
Ant-knee! You stop that right now! You're scaring the little children.
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Faldage, you said you couldn't find the etymology, thus implying you thought it was relevant, so I gave you the etymology. Orient comes from the present participle oriens.
Bingley
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etymology
The etymologies I couldn't (or didn't since I was too lazy to look past the -[at]ive words) find was the etymologies for imaginative and preventive. Your point about the past participles shed a lot of light on the subject. I'll be on the lookout for some nice second conjugation verbs with a past participle in -etus.
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Orient comes from the present participle oriens
Please correct my misunderstandification, but I thought orient came from no part of a verb but was rather a verbed noun...?
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I think the process was that the English verb orient(ate) come from the English noun Orient, which comes from the Latin noun oriens, which comes from the present participle oriens. However, somebody with a dictionary that gives dates may be able to confirm or rebut this.
Bingley
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Thanks kindly - yes, of course, I was simply not reaching back far enough, was I? Orient - c.1375, from L. orientem (nom. oriens) "part of the sky where the sun rises," originally "rising" (adj.), prp. of oriri "to rise." The verb is c.1730s, originally "to arrange facing east," from Fr. s'orienter "to take one's bearings," lit. "to face the east" (also the source of Ger. orientierung), from O.Fr. orient "east," from L. orientum. Meaning "determine bearings" first attested 1842. Oriental (adj.) is 14c. from O.Fr. oriental, from L. orientalis "of the east," from orientem. Orientation is from 1839 and originally meant "arrangement of a building, etc., to face east or any other specified direction;" sense of "determine one's bearings" is from c.1870.http://www.etymonline.com/o2etym.htm
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>misunderstandification<
What's up with all these maverickifications lately?...prevenive levity?
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levity
shirley you meant levitifications?
formerly known as etaoin...
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> levitifications
Which comes just before deuteronomifications.
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formerly known as etaoin...
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What's up with all these maverickifications lately?
Bushed if I know - guess it's just a branchificationism in my language awareness :)
hey, Max, no fair, don start beating me with The Book now, yah hear!?
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>Bushed if I know - guess it's just a branchificationism in my language awareness :)
hey, Max, no fair, don start beating me with The Book now, yah hear!?
The Book tells you istself, remember: Don't Panic!
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I put absolutely no weight on that.
TEd
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no weight
Ah! The lightness of levity versus the graveness of gravity.
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