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While Mecca is a proper noun, when referring to the city in Saudi Arabia, it is also used as a common noun, as in "Reno is a mecca for gamblers" or "the skiing mecca of the US is Jackson Hole." When a proper place name becomes a common noun, is it still properly captialized or does one use the lower case to distinguish it from the actual city?
Also, is this usage in any way offensive to Muslims?
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old hand
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I can't answer for its offensiveness or otherwise, but here it is used lower case to distinguish from the city.
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stranger
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I vaguely remember hearing that muslims get annoyed by the lower case usage. I don't recall the source, though.
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Carpal Tunnel
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they must've lost the copyright battle, eh?
formerly known as etaoin...
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old hand
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> Also, is this usage in any way offensive to Muslims?
None I know, though I guess it depends on the context. If you said "India is a mecca for sex tourism", then you've been pretty careless and slipped into well, let's say insensitive terrain. AFAIK, though it's fine otherwise. BTW, the lower case version makes sense to me.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Here you go, Father Steve: backup from an "official" source (I've added the bold face):
Specific geographical locations: Hartford, Connecticut, Africa, Forest Park Zoo, Lake Erie, the Northeast, the Southend. However, we do not capitalize compass directions or locations that aren't being used as names: the north side of the city; we're leaving the Northwest and heading south this winter. http://www.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/capitals.htm
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Carpal Tunnel
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yeah, but jackie, i can't think of any city/state/or other specific place that has become also a generic word..
even in common experessions like "we're(you're) not in Kansas anymore", refers to Kansas in particular and not just the hicks
Attitude adjustments are done with Lou'ville sluggers.. not lou'vill sluggers..
can you come up with an example of a place that is so identified with a idea that the word has ceased to be capitalized?
Not even a NY minute, or Philadelphia lawyer get lower case. Why should Mecca be different?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Individuals seen wearing both a white belt and white shoes are sometimes described as wearing a "full Cleveland" -- in which the municipal name is capitalized.
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Carpal Tunnel
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In reply to:
yeah, but jackie, i can't think of any city/state/or other specific place that has become also a generic word..
China v. china?
Incidentally there used to be (and maybe still is) a chain of bingo halls in Britain called Mecca, owned if I remember correctly by the Morleys who started the Miss World contest. Somehow I suspect that doesn't go down too well.
Bingley
Bingley
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put a little english on the ball...
or perhaps a french kiss?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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In ten-pin bowling, a right-handed bowler is supposed to make the course of the ball curve from the near right-hand gutter so as to strike the headpin (#1) and the pin just behind and to the headpin's right (#3). When a right-handed bowler instead causes the course of the ball to cross over the center-line of the alley and strike the left-hand side of the headpin and, often, the pin just behind and to the left of it (#2), this is called "Brooklyn" which is, mostly, I think, capitalized.
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Common term in the navy: when you moor alongside another ship, bow to stern, you are doing it "chinese." Never seen it written, but presume it's not capitalized.
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China/china is a valid example. good thinking.
but chinese, or danish, or viennaese, or other words with an ese or ishor ian ending are obviously adjectives.. a russian tea room is one that serves tea from a samovor, not a tea pot as they do in an english tea room.. but we don't say russia tea room, or england tea room.
i think meccian, or meccaish would not be a problem for muslims, but i do see their point.. their holy city is used as a synonym in all sorts of non religious ways, and its not capitalized, and we do not use an ending to make teh word into a adjective, the way almost every other use of proper name is.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Brooklynoh, thanks for that one, Father Steve! when I was a kid, my Mom would take me with her to her bowling league. I have such fond memories of giant paper airplanes made from score sheets, and some of the terms used, such as "Brooklyn". I haven't heard that for a looong time... 
formerly known as etaoin...
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Pooh-Bah
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How about jerusalem artichokes? or crépe de chine?
Also, amperes, volts, roëntgens and a whole host of specialist terms do not capitalise on their eponymous originators.
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roëntgen
I know what it means and that it is the discoverer's name. BUT. How is it *pronounced? Arrrggghhh.
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formerly known as etaoin...
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It does go against my grain not to capitalize a proper noun. I used to try and do it with all screen names here, 'till tsuwm slapped my wrist hard enough to learn me. 
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OK, so it's rent-gen, right? Accent on rent. Sometimes the proununciation guides are more confusing than helpful. Sigh
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Carpal Tunnel
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wow, did you listen to the audio example? m-w has them for each word. just click on the little speaker icon next to the word.
formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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...When a right-handed bowler instead causes the course of the ball to cross over the center-line of the alley and strike the left-hand side of the headpin and, often, the pin just behind and to the left of it (#2), this is called "Brooklyn" which is, mostly, I think, capitalized...
...but if you came from the other side of the city it was referred to as hitting the "Jersey" side of the pins. And also, definitely, capitalized.
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old hand
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> wow, did you listen to the audio example?
Pfui, that thing is uhhhg-ly! How do they come up with 'rent'? Just saying 'runt-gun' or omitting the e and saying 'ront-gun' would be better than that. The correct pronunciation would of course be rönt'gun, where the ö is pronounced like the French peu or of course like good ol' Goethe. And yes the consonant t is included too;-) As for how the r is pronounced correctly, well let's just say it's nothing like that recording.
Now I'm starting to realize why English has the somewhat absurd 'x-ray'.
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Carpal Tunnel
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rent-gen the latter sorta' rhymes with the end of "again" in the example - which takes *forever to load, by the way, when you connect thru phone line!
I wondered because in the military anyone who works around stuff that gives off those rays has a badge that records the "rönt'gun" rays ... a lot of trouble to y'all just so I don't disgrace myself when I pronounce it. Typical of the military - why not just X-ray badge? Keep the civilians confused? It looks like I'll just slur over it as usual.
Thanks for the help.
(Huge West-Of-Ireland sigh)
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When I wore a badge like this (during the nuclear weapons testing in the Pacific in 1962) and later aboard nuclear-powered submarines, we called them "dosimeters."
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Pooh-Bah
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A friend of mine used to have this cute T shirt that read, "Harvard, the Duke of the North."
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Carpal Tunnel
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I wore a badge ... we called them "dosimeters."
____________________
Ah HA the very one : OED says dosimeter is
"a device for measuring doses esp. of ionizing radiation. Also called dosemeter." Way back in the '60s I was told the dosimeter registered doses of those R waves!
I cannot figure out the connection beteen the T shirt saying and the prior comments please enlighten me
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Pooh-Bah
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Back in the days when I was a member of the Civil Defence Corps (yes, I *am that old!), we used dosimeters (jocularly referred to as "dozy-meters"). These were small, tubular machines with a calibrated dial with a logorithmic scale at one end which indicated the amount of radiation present.
Incidentally, how do *you pronounce "dosimeter?" We used to put the stress on the second syllable, thus - doh-SIM- mit-uh.
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I cannot figure out the connection beteen the T shirt saying and the prior comments please enlighten me A friend of mine used to have this cute T shirt that read, "Harvard, the Duke of the North." My guess is that it may refer to a point in the opening post  . If Duke of the North were an actual title, then Duke would be capitalized. If you were just referring to a duke of the North, then it wouldn't. But, since on the T-shirt it is capitalized, I imagine that it refers to Duke University, which is located rather southernly.
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Pooh-Bah
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These were small, tubular machines with a calibrated dial with a logorithmic scale at one end which indicated the amount of radiation present.
And there was silly me, rather hoping that they were used to determine the presence of STDs in brothels ...
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Carpal Tunnel
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And you were hoping this because ....?
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And you were hoping this because ....? 
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Pooh-Bah
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*sigh* ... well, I remember I used to be interested, but I can't remember why ...
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This thread started out by asking whether a proper noun should be capitalized when it's used as a common noun. Now we're posting about dosimeters. Can we say, then, that this thread has meccamorphed?
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Pooh-Bah
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Proably just disoriented.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Oh, it was an occidental meccamorph, then...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Shouldn't that be meccamorphdosis?
Bingley
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Pooh-Bah
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do they square dance in Mecca?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Oh, cool, Connie! Though that's Lebanon, with one n at a time. I have relatives down near there; wouldn't mind going to see a square dance exhibition.
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Pooh-Bah
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What's 50ft long and stinks of urine?
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Along the same line: What has 40 legs and 10 teeth?
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The front row at a Willie Nelson concert
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Carpal Tunnel
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What's 50ft long and stinks of urine?
A line dance at the Nashville old folks' home? By the way, the town in TN (there's one in KY, too) is pronounced Leb'nun.
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Carpal Tunnel
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What's 50ft long and stinks of urine? A Kentucky horse barn? You gonna take on us old folks? Well - y'all just better watch out!
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