As an American I am all too painfully aware of how unmusical we are on this side of the pond compared with the British, the Irish and the Scots. What are some of your favorite British Isles expressions? Here are some of mine:
"Thanks, luv." (spoken by the female porter on the 19 bus in London)
"Right!" exclamation, sounds like "roit!"
"You're mad!"
"You can't be serious!"
"Oh Jesus!" Irish, sounds like "Oh Jaysus!"
"Good evening, and welcome to 'Masterpiece Theatre.'" Deeply imbedded in my synapses from youth.
"You bastard!" John Cleese as irate chef in restaurant
"Terribly sorry!" mumbled by a banker who has inadvertently stepped on your toe
As an American I am all too painfully aware of how unmusical we are on this side of the pond
Perhaps in the clarity of pronunciation the Brits we hear on imported radio and TV programs have an edge. But there are parts of England I visited where the English is hard to understand at best and incoherent at its worst. I found some Scots accents quite sexy but I met just a few Scots at a party. Irish accent can be musical (Kildare) high pitched (Kerry) broad and flat (Cork) or very hard to understand (Galway.) Barry Fitgerald who played Michaeleen in "The Quiet Man" had a west Ireland accent. While here in US of A I have heard some delicious Southern accents, rugged western accents and the Indiana accent of my late husband was enough to raise goose bumps! To my ear, "upper class" British accents, in some cases, lack any vestage of what could be called warmth. For an example send a private, ok? So, I guess I take a friendly, poking the Borax, kind of umbrage. wow
I know what wow is talking about with the Socttish accents. Some of them are impossible to decipher. In a pub in northern Scotland, an older man accosted me and kept asking me something that I couldn't understand. I felt embarassed to have to keep saying "What?", and it didn't help matters that the fellow looked rather...irate. Finally his words became clear to me. He was asking "Are ye a German, lad?" To which I replied, "No sir I'm an American." Instantly his face blossomed into a smile and he clapped me on the back and said "Ah, you're a Yank are ye!" I got the impression that a "German lad" wouldn't have been very welcome in that particular pub.
It wasn't the only time I was mistaken for a German. In a train station I was accosted by a pan handler, and I stared at him blankly until he said half to himself "Oh, you're German! You don't understand a word I'm saying!" and walked off.
Has anyone else in N. America seen this as a supposed pronunciation of Brit-speak? My British friend had no idea what I was talking about, and says no one there says the word 'very' that way. I believe that, wherever I read it, it was attributed to the upper class. Hi, Alex.
Jackie, I think it's related to the "tara" thang (hi, Jo!): we interpret the Brit flapped R to be either the voiced or unvoiced alveolar plosive (D or T) and hear "ta-ta"
Ta-ta and tara (pronounced more like turrah) are both used in the UK, although I associate tara mainly with the NE and London. There was a radio programme (I don't rember it myself) called TTFN -- Tata For Now.
Hi - this is my first post but thought it was about time (seeing as I'm a Brit...)
Crikey - (polite) surprise To be knackered (rhyming slang - cream crackered) to be very tired To take the mickey - to mock someone. "Are you taking the mickey?" Tickity-boo. This means fine, OK. "Everything is just tickety-boo".
One of my favorites/favourites: "A reading from the book of the Prophet Isaiah" (the penultimate syllable in the prophet's name being pronounced "eye") Don't know why Brits and American have different pronunciations for this. Do you?
I felt embarassed to have to keep saying "What?", and it didn't help matters that the fellow looked rather...irate.
I know that feeling well -- being embarrassed, that is. When I moved from Southern Ontario (Canada) to Louisiana, it was months before I could listen through a conversation without a "Pardon?". It didn't help that our phone number used to be for the state Wage and Labor division (and still passed around by clueless departments). Loved those upset phone calls at two in the morning...
New Orleans accents were about as easy as they got for me. They actually have an almost Bostonian ring to how they speak. No idea how that came about, but it is one of my favorite of the southern accents.
In my opinion, though, nothing can beat a nice, mellow irish accent.
It's interesting how some words/slang just wouldn't be right when said without the proper accent. If I heard something like "crickey" out of the mouth of one my neighbors, I would think I'd misheard what he was really trying to say.
I'd love to know more Brit speak, slang. (Or any region's slang, for that matter). I'm pretty new to the AWAD, so if it's come up before, I haven't come across it. Maybe something for a new thread? Or private mail me if you've got a list... I'd enjoy it.
I'd love to know more Brit speak, slang. (Or any region's slang, for that matter).
That reminds me... i use the slang term "bloody" quite often, though i'm not exactly sure where i picked it up. is it considered offensive in england, or elsewhere? my usage of it is always as an adjective (eg: i couldn't get the bloody lock open), usually to convey mild disdain or frustration. i *never* swear, so i hope it's not a really "bad" word .
That reminds me... i use the slang term "bloody" quite often, though i'm not exactly sure where i picked it up. is it considered offensive in england, or elsewhere?
The impression I've gotten was that "blood" was like saying "damn", so it depends on the person. And "bloomin" is to "bloody" what "darn" is to "damn". I'm not a brit, though, so maybe someone else will correct me?
Oh yes-- bloody and bleedin' always got a "Language!" admonishment in our household-- where for shit and fuck, a "really, must you use those words?"-- I think for a long time, my mother didn't recognise "shit"-- the irish say it almost like "shite"-- and i think she though we where using the equiviant to "darn" for "damn"
but most "4 letter" words where okay-- but blasphemy was not-- the first three commandment were obeyed in our household--- most of the remaining seven too, but not like the first three.--
Surely bloody used to be far worse though. At least according to 'My Fair Lady' is was.
Certainly, it was. In the Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language David Crystal reproduces the shock horror newspaper reports on the first performance of Pygmalion (George Bernard Shaw's play, which was the source for My Fair Lady). I can't give you the page no. because I'm at work and the book's at home but YCLIU easily enough.
"Bugger" is a very mild expletive here and in the Strine. It's so versatile. You can say "Well, that's a bit of a bugger!" when something goes wrong, or "Bugger!" if something surprises you, or "buggeeer!" if you are annoyed or "Bugger me!" in both situations. There is a Toyota ad here in which "Bugger!" and "Bugger me!" are the nearly the only words used - by the farmer, the farmer's wife and the farmer's dog. And there's another ad where a 5-year-old girl uses it when her shoes are splashed by a car.
It has, I must emphasise, completely lost any sexual deviancy connotations it ever had. Most youngsters these days wouldn't even know that it had ever meant anything else.
And we're damned hypocritical about these words and their usage anyway. Just lately I've noticed an almost complete break down of the inhibitions about using "fuck" in front of women. This is mostly because women tend to use it themselves in mixed company without any self-consciousness at all. Effectively, this word which still offends so many is losing/has lost its sexual connotations as well. Other words have taken over that role. In a documentary on TV the other day about a well-known New Zealand actor, one of the interviewees was telling the story about a bus breaking down, the driver disappearing under the vehicle for a look-see and emerging to announce "Well, the fuckin' fucker's fucked!". Where's the sex in that? I shall, however, treasure its succinct, to-the-point clarity for ever!
And we're damned hypocritical about these words and their usage anyway. Just lately I've noticed an almost complete break down of the inhibitions about using "fuck" in front of women. This is mostly because women tend to use it themselves in mixed company without any self-consciousness at all.
*wow*. that's certainly not the case here in the States, at least not the part i'm from. if a woman in mixed company should utter that word in any situation other than perhaps an off-color joke (and said with the appropriate blush), i'd think the host should've taken more care with the guest list.
we have one male friend who makes compulsive and liberal use of that word, and i tolerate it because i must and because i've known him just short of forever. however, if a new acquaintance used that word capriciously in my presence, i'd be offended.
that's certainly not the case here in the States, at least not the part i'm from.
I realise that. America's innate conservatism is easily discerned here, where we get Australian, British and American TV in roughly equal proportions.
As for managing guest lists, the women I hear the use of obscenities from most are not necessarily on mine, but work around me ... highly educated (in some respects) but, as my dear old mum, who's dead at the moment would say, they weren't brought up, they were dragged up backwards through a gorse bush.
Although I've probably mentioned it before, you have to realise that women's lib got taken very seriously here in Zild and with a few exceptions on that malleable list of general demands which libbers failed to burn along with their bras, has succeeded. That includes, apparently, the right to say exactly what they want to say and to say it exactly how they want to say it!
Really, though, it goes much deeper than just language, it's the philosophy of life behind the language. Most of the women in their twenties who work for our company are the daughters of women who are my age. Those women imparted the 60's/70's female ideology to their kids with perhaps predictable results.
For a lot of my female contemporaries, it was an attitude adopted to make a point, for their daughters it's just normal behaviour. Where once only men prowled the bars looking for one-night stands, women have not only taken up the hobby but are quite comfortable announcing to all within earshot that that is their intention. One female colleague from a few years ago announced then that when she wanted a child, she'd find a suitable father and has since just done that - but she never intended that the relationship should extend beyond the donation of sperm, and it didn't.
And the luxury of being able to take this attitude stems from their high disposable incomes. In Zild, women professionals negotiate and receive salaries at the same level as men. They often expect to have their babies and within a month or two return to work. Or, as in one rather memorable case at our firm, intend to stay home permanently but get bored and come back to work within a couple of WEEKS. Babies are minded by grandmothers, nannies or creches. The incidence of fathers giving up work and staying home to do the child-rearing in on the increase as well.
The skills some of these women have are such that most firms, including mine, subsidise creche care and expect that mum will just pop out to feed Junior. One creche in central Wellington is apparently chock full with the offspring of IT professionals. The mothers, who are from different and often competing firms, network and, oh, dear!
So there has been some "defeminisation". The female professionals work hard and play hard, with or without the men. They work in the same high pressure environments and suffer the same kinds of frustration that their male counterparts do. The rest, as they say, is history!
For me the offensiveness of that term depending on the situation. In business or faith related arenas it's very bad, but in bars it has to be tolerated. I have a girlfriend who uses it all the time I have to be very careful of my speech for days after time spent with her, she's a bank vice president even being at work doesn't stop her. On the other hand I've seen the most foul mouth of the customers of the one places I drink in self edit because my mom or other senior ladies were there. Not so for the Dad's.
When I really thought about it for the first time, I realized that using "fuck you" as an insult is actually very misogynistic -- equating being on the receiving end of intercourse as being inferior. So I've tried to quit using it that way. Fucking is too much fun to turn into a power struggle!
"Although I've probably mentioned it before, you have to realise that women's lib got taken very seriously here in Zild and with a few exceptions on that malleable list of general demands which libbers failed to burn along with their bras, has succeeded. That includes, apparently, the right to say exactly what they want to say and to say it exactly how they want to say it!"
I do not regard female free use of the "f... word" as progress. I guess I am so used to girls behaving better than us boys, that I don't enjoy their uncritical use of new found freedom. They may well be more comfortable being down from the pedestal they were formerly expected to occupy, but the base of the pedestal was not in the gutter.
I do not regard female free use of the "f... word" as progress. I guess I am so used to girls behaving better than us boys, that I don't enjoy their uncritical use of new found freedom. They may well be more comfortable being down from the pedestal they were formerly expected to occupy, but the base of the pedestal was not in the gutter.
Sorry Bill, it's far too late to do anything except to lie back and think of England ... + [Diving-for-cover-from Jackie emoticon]
C.K., I'm finally getting around to a more thought-out reply. You clearly recognize and accept that women are in fact equally capable, and just as deserving of rewards for their efforts. This is one of the many reasons I admire you.
Your comment on the generations reminded me of a statement that I can only paraphrase, having not only forgotten the exact words, but the source, whom I think is a black female: Wearing heels, I stride through doors that were pushed open by my grandmother crawling barefoot. (The ref. to high-heeled shoes being to something that only high-level-job people wear.)
You said that women in NZ say what they want to , however they want to, and do things like announce that they have gone to bars looking for one-night stands. I believe I picked up a hint that you disapprove of this, and I also have the feeling that you disapprove of men doing this. (If I am wrong, feel free to correct me.) But based on that belief, I will add that I agree that there is a time and a place for crude language and behavior, and that most group settings, including work, is not one of them. In my opinion, this demonstrates one or more of the following: the speaker doesn't know any better, which is really sad; is demonstrating a lack of consideration for others, as though they are thinking, "My words offend you? Too bad for you, sucker!"; the speaker believes/hopes this usage will demonstrate the allegation that they are something they really aren't--similar to the effect young teens are trying to give by smoking.
There is nothing derogatory in demonstrating that one has been taught good manners, and uses them. Good manners most definitely involves consideration of others. If someone is constantly flaunting their lack of good manners, this says a great deal about them, and all around them know it--unless they are with people of like mind, in which case it doesn't matter as much.
I have no problem with myself or others hearing and using uncouth language to people who know us well--that is, those whom we know who will not be offended. But I am of the irrevocable opinion that there are certain things that should, quite simply, be kept private.
Going down a side path for a moment: each of has different things that offend us. I have my own, unjustified set of things I take offense at: d-mn and h-ll don't bother me, but I was raised that the b--t word for one's backside was a bad word, so I don't use that--I think it slipped out one time; and I absolutely, never, ever, use that a-- word---I can't abide it, I just can't. And while I'm ranting, I really don't care to know what kind of undergarments people wear, and I most especially do not want to know what kind of private activities people consider "fun".
This, I think, emphasizes all the more my earlier point about how important it is to have consideration for others, and that if someone perseveres with behavior that they know offends someone, this tells a great deal about what they are like.
I will add that I agree that there is a time and a place for crude language and behavior, and that most group settings, including work, is not one of them. In my opinion, this demonstrates one or more of the following: the speaker doesn't know any better, which is really sad; is demonstrating a lack of consideration for others, as though they are thinking, "My words offend you? Too bad for you, sucker!"
Jackie, you have hit squarely upon it. A study of the use of vulgar language (I forget where I read it, but it was within the past year or two) in the US showed an inverted bell curve, when frequency of the language was plotted against the socio-economic-educational background of the speaker. Briefly, the higher or lower the station of the speaker, the more vulgar the language. Why? I think you have answered it - the lower-educated and employed neither know of the inappropriateness of the behavior, nor have anything to risk by its use, while the higher-stationed speaker knows he may spew bile with impunity, and does so to confirm his authority (like my former boss). I have observed in my own life that both handwriting deterioration and the use of vulgarity seem to directly correlate with years spent in higher education.
>US showed an inverted bell curve, when frequency of the language was plotted against the socio-economic-educational background of the speaker. Briefly, the higher or lower the station of the speaker, the more vulgar the language.
I'd agree with this. I had a wide range of friends whilst at university and noticed that the "upper classes" swore like troopers and had no problem with "personal habits" that would be regarded with horror outside their social circle. That which was allowed "Upstairs" would not be countenanced "Downstairs".
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site.
Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to
hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.
(D or T) and hear "ta-ta"
.
+ [Diving-for-cover-from Jackie emoticon]
