Fiberbabe comments: ...my pet, the two dollar bill (good for you for carrying one, Faldage!)...
I plead innocent. I have it purely by chance. I stopped off at the Co-op after chorus last night and paid for my small purchase with one dollar bills. The checkout clerk commented that she had gotten two two dollar bills earlier and couldn't get rid of them (I don't know why she had to get rid of them) and I offered to buy one from her (I still had a bunch of ones) since the subject had come up in some other context.
There's an eagle on the back with maybe some mountains and stars of the number of states that were in the Union at the time of Lewis and Clark's little cross country jaunt.
Oh boy, more Ohio propaganda for me. The Louisiana Purchase was made in 1803, the same year Ohio was admitted as a state. Lewis and Clark began their journey shortly thereafter and it wasn't until 1812 that the next state, Louisiana, was admitted. So there are 17 stars on the coin, because Ohio is the 17th state.
And along with the 50 State Quarters Program. Had they started it in 2000 instead of 1999, which would have been logical, Ohio would have had their coin come out in March of 2003, the bicentennial and same month of Ohio's admittance. Oh well . . . Although, Ohio's coin is coming out the year that the Lincoln Memorial thinks is its bicentennial. The Lincoln Memorial has the states' names and year of admittance carved around the top. For some reason it has 1802 for Ohio.
Well done on the English coins, of troy. Only one mistake, a florin was two shillings not ten. I can't remember for sure now whether there was a ten shilling coin before decimalisation. I think it was a ten shilling note. There was also a groat, which was fourpence, but that died out a couple of hundred years ago.
NZers have the highest rate of ETPOS usage in the world, and almost the lowest rate of ATM usage in the developed world.
Max, I agree about the highest level of EFT-POS usage here - I generally don't have more than 50c in my pocket. A friend of mine who has a shop in Dunedin says that between 85 and 90 percent of his turnover is via EFT-POS.
But I'd like to see your evidence for lowest rate of ATM usage. There are FIFTEEN of them, I'm told, in Lambton Quay in Wellington alone although I've never counted them. This is believed to be the highest concentration of ATMs in the world. I've had to hunt high and low in cities in Europe and the Strine to find an ATM. You just about trip over 'em here. Que pasa, senor?
But I'd like to see your evidence for lowest rate of ATM usage.
Peccavi, mea maxima culpa. I simply parroted what I saw on a news bulletin about three nights ago. It centred on the significant decline in NZer's use of ATMs. There are indeed an awful lot of them, but since every bank bar one now charges disloyalty fees of up to $2 for using machines other theirs, it seems Kiwis are abandoning the use of ATMs. The piece gave both the factoids I shamelessly propagated, along with mentioning one datum I could concur with from personal experience, to wit, that many people use efpos purchases at supermarkets to get cash rather than going to an ATM. The most amusing part of the bulletin was listening to a bank rep. trying first to deny that there was a trend away from ATM use, and then trying to put a positive spin on it, one that omitted any acknowledgement that exorbitant fees might conceivably be part of the reason. That was entertaining.
There has been such a fuss about disloyalty charges by banks, especially in rural areas where they have closed so many branches that a lot of the charges have been lifted (doubtless they have found other ways of charging us). I think they are also worried about keping customers in the light of the growth of internet banking.
I take it that ETPOS stands for electronic transfer point of sale or something like that. We call it Interac or Direct Payment here. It's very popular and all but the very smallest of business have it. (At our Taekwondo club we still have to pay for our membership by cheque/cash, for example.)
Question to US'ns: I've heard that direct payment didn't really take off in the US. True or false? Do you personally use cash a lot? I'm all about Direct Payment. (Forgive the younger-brother-like grammar there; it fit.) Then (as long as you have money in the bank account) you never find yourself with not quite enough cash for all your groceries or whatever.
However, I have a related makes-my-teeth-itch thing: People tend to say "Interact". Notice that above, I spelled it as it is spelled on the cards - NO "T" at the end!!!!!!!!!!! None, not even a little one!!!!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!!
My ATM card was recent made into a "direct payment" card-- and I cut it up and sent it back!
I tend to keep a high balance in my checkbook-- (i also have high deductables on car and house insurance) and i do not want to have my ATM/Debit card "cloned" and my account cleared. Its was a big problem in California, on of the first states to begin to use ET POS. I use cash or credit cards. If my credit card is cloned, i am liable for the first $50-- I can afford that!.
What happened in CA was, in wascarwashes and other small businesses that work with "part time" help, and very little direct Management, the employees set up small cam corders in the drop ceiling tiles, to record someone pin number-- and then used the "print out of purchches (which included account numbers, but no "pins") and synced the two-- there are some places i am told where you don't even have to put in a pin! It swipe and go! I also bank at Citi-- so there are thousand of branches-- so when i was in Japan-- i went "downtown" and used my ATM to get more cash. Citi doesn't add a fee if you use an other bank*, but can't void other banks fees. I rarely end up paying them, since in NY Citi has millions of branches-- including some that are just machine branches--no back services except ATM's. *This is not a plug for citi bank-- i get great service because i have a "High Balance"-- which i think is weird! my high balance is the "Balance due" (on my mortgage) because its over $10,000, i am considered a "high level" user! It will be years before I fall back into the catagory of less than $10,000 in combined balances in my accounts! it not hard to have a balance due on a mortgage ove $10,000!
Okay, I found a website for the Canadian bills, too, if anyone is interested: http://www.wallis.com/cdn_bills/ Then you can see just how colourful they are. And for more imagery, I can now tell you who's on them: $5 - Wilfred Laurier - 2nd prime minister (I think), and a bird (belted kingfisher) on the reverse side $10 - John A. Macdonald - 1st prime minister, and peacekeeping/Remembrance Day stuff on the back (this is brand new, came out last month) (the old one had an osprey on the back) $20 - the Queen, plus a loon on the back $50 - William Lyon Mackenzie King (prime minister during WW II, I think) plus a snowy owl on the back $100 - Sir Robert Borden (prime minister, don't remember when), plus a Canada goose on the back
They have just stopped making $1000 bills. These had the Queen on them. (I had a bath towel modelled after one.) All the bills also have pieces of the Parliament Buildings on the front. Funny about all the animals - I had noticed the animal theme on the coins but I hadn't really noticed it so much on the bills until I wrote up this description. As I recall, the $2 bill had robins on the back, before it was replaced by the coin. I guess it was a bird series.
Question to US'ns: I've heard that direct payment didn't really take off in the US. True or false? Do you personally use cash a lot?
I get my paycheck direct deposited, I have, for the last two years gotten my Federal tax refund EFTed to me. I generally buy my gas with debit/ATM card but not my groceries; there is a charge for the latter but not the former. I do direct payment on three of my monthly bills (out of eight??).
I've heard that direct payment didn't really take off in the US. True or false? Do you personally use cash a lot?
To this Old Lady, direct payment IS cash! I have two friends in high banking positions ... neither has a debit card. Hmmmmm. Of Troy makes an excellent point about the stealing of PIN numbers and cloning of cards and the $50 liability for credit cards. At my bank recently the Head Teller asked if I wouldn't like using their new debit cards. She went to extoll the virtues of said cards. "So much easier than writing out checks," she said enthusiastically! "No thanks," I replied, "I don't want to lose the float." "Oh, they never mentioned that in our seminar" she said with a puzzled look. "Float" is the time between when you write a check and it gets through the system and the debit is posted to your account. Interest bearing checking accounts compute on the "average daily balance." Pay your bills on Friday afternoon and the check isn't debited to you until probably Monday or even Tuesday. Or Wednesday in event of Monday holidays. With Debit Cards the deduction is immediate! Doesn't sound like much $$$ ...?? ... Think about how long you'll have a checking account. I've had one since 1950 when I turned 21. Probably earned enough for a RT ticket to Ireland over the years. Ask yourself : If Debit Cards did not make money for the Bank, would they offer them? Just a random thought...
of troy wrote: My ATM card was recent made into a "direct payment" card-- and I cut it up and sent it back!
Same card for both here, always has been. This is getting confusing.
I looked up the terms of ATM (and direct payment) cards on my bank's website. They don't hold you repsonsible for losses if you unintentionally contribtue to someone knowing your PIN (as in the example about the cameras) and you co-operate with their investigation. I guess that would be the fundamental difference in why they didn't take off in the US, but they are so popular here. People don't really fear using them here, or at least not for the same reasons. It's probably easier to forge a cheque than rip off ATM PINs.
Plus, it's such a pain to write cheques. Then you have to have your chequebook with you! For someone who still refuses to carry a purse, this is definitely an issue.
As for the service fees, here they are universal on all direct payment transactions, no matter what kind of store (see Faldage's post). I have decided to circumvent this so I use an Internet banking provider for day-to-day stuff, and they have no service fees at all.
i only use cash to pay my housekeeper and non-citizen gardeners and such, or sometimes to get discounts on big ticket items like furniture or home improvements.
my bank charges a nominal fee the first time you use your ATM card for goods and services each month (i think it's like $10 or so) then you have unlimited use of it the rest of the month. As someone pointed out, it can be used as a credit card, with no PIN at all, at many places, but my bank covers any unauthorized usage without any penalty deductibles, so the convenience is worth the risk of having to deal with being temporarily without a checking account in the event that my card is stolen and my bank account cleared.
My grocery store has its own Debit Card which is linked directly to my checking account, so i never use cash there.... and i never even write physical checks to pay bills because i do it all online through Quicken. In fact, i don't even have to prompt the payments to go through on my 'fixed' bills such as mortgage, car payments, cable, schooling, donations, etc. It makes life a bit more simple, and all this automation leaves more time for AWAD and other distractions
I guess, if what of troy and wow posted is typical of an American's sentiment toward the Direct Payment method, then I can see why it didn't take off as quickly there. No offense, of course, but I don't think I've ever heard ANYONE here respond as vehemently as they did to the question about debit cards. [quiver-in-fear emoticon] Ah well, I just wondered...and now I know!
Bean's Canadian currency site shows a picture of the 1991 $20 bill, with a portrait of Liz II on it, and underneath it notes that "a Common Loon is on the back."
JFK half-dollar Everyone seems to have forgotten the Eisenhour half-dollar, which had a bust of that President on one side and I forget what on the other (I have one at home). After the release of the Kennedy half-dollar, you didn't see them any more, and the Kennedy half-dollar was as short-lived as all half dollars. I hasn't been a popular coin because of its size.
No one has mentioned the gold coins, which were not uncommon before the U.S. went off the gold standard in the 1930's. (My father mentioned that his parents received their pay weekly, in gold and silver, no notes). The eagle was a gold coin about the size of a quarter, featuring an eagle, and worth $10; the half-eagle ($5) was smaller; the double eagle ($20) was about the size of a half dollar and was a very handsome coin. There were also bank notes which were redeemable in gold.
Max has a point about bank "disloyalty" fees, and I didn't mean to imply that the usage of ATMs wasn't dropping to some extent, because it is. But I think that the banks have it wrong - the usage of ATMs has dropped away because of the proliferation of EFT-POS, which stands for "electronic funds transfer - point of sale".
Like Bridget96, we have an arrangement with our bank which means that we pay a total of $20 per month in card-related fees for DD cards, including ATM withdrawals/deposits. While this doesn't obviate fees by other banks, I don't generally find this onerous because my bank hs so many ATMs that I rarely go to any other bank's machines. We also negotiated a deal to void fees on ATM transactions with another major bank on the basis that we have a mortgage with them, and did they REALLY want to keep our business? This probably covers at least 50% of the machines in NZ.
One of the blessings of ATMs is that I can use my direct debit card anywhere in the world that has ATMs. And given the relative lack of value of the NZ dollar anywhere but here, it's also one of the curses ...
One of the interesting issues that has arisen as a result of NZ's wholehearted embrace of cashlessness is that it is extremely difficult to get any business at all to accept a cheque. I used to write dozens of the damned things in a month, and now we pay precisely one (1) - count 'em - cheque a month on a regular basis, plus pay the odd tradesman (and most of them are odd).
I think paying bills should be a task ... reminds me it is real money ... also keeps me more cognizant of the finances in general, seeing the numbers, going through the checks. Easier to spot an error or a kited check, etc. Perhaps I am simply old fashioned but I do no personal banking business over the Net. I have one credit card that I use exclusively for updates on the McAfee thingie and that's about it. On other hand, perhaps some lean, tough years taught me to be more money conscious. I went to a seminar for seniors on "Scams" about a year ago and a woman spoke on how her identity was stolen and the hell she went though for FIVE years before it ended after they caught the thief. The police officer conducting the seminar noted the thief is not always caught and we should check statements, guard PINs etc etc. The theft in this particular instance was done this way : Her car was stolen. A police officer stopped the car for a minor violation. The thief (a woman) said she had lost her license but offered the registration that was in glove compartment. The officer called up name of registered owner on the computer and wrote THE THIEF a ticket which included The real car-owner's SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER. The thief, armed with that info was off and running. It happens more than you think. The woman's bank accounts were cleaned out,the thief called the bank and changed the PIN number and got a new Debit Card mailed, charges on (new) credit cards were HUGE, her apartment was entered and cleaned out,(they had her ID) her credit was ruined. Sheer hell for five years. After hearing that I went to DMV and had my SS number taken off my driver's license ($10 fee.) Subsequent license, this year, I checked the box eliminating SS from license. I understand that in some states your Social Security number is your license number ... I do not give my SS as an "identifier" and when I refuse EVERY TIME I have been given a random account number. Am I Cassandra? A lone voice in the wilderness? Ahhh, well. Not the first time. wow
There are quite a few horror stories like that one.
I am not touting this as a service (translated: they aren't paying me), but Discover Card has a new gimmick that makes one heck of a lot of sense. If you want to pay on lline with your discover card, you push a button on your screen and your computer links to the Discover Card center and it creates a one use Discover Card number for you. The program tells Discover whom you intend to pay (but not how much, I believe) and Discover creates a card number and inserts it in the proper space. You can then send it unsecured because only the merchant they already have associated with that particular number can "use" that account number. SLICK!!!
No, not by a long shot. I was always under the impression that Social Security Numbers were private and not to be used for identification. However, what does Kutztown University of PA use for student ID numbers? You got it. Ditto for my dad's employee number at the railroad. He hates this fact and complains (loudly) about it at regular intervals.
one use Discover Card number for you. The program tells Discover whom you intend to pay (but not how much, I believe) and Discover creates a card number and inserts it in the proper space. You can then send it unsecured because only the merchant they already have associated with that particular number can "use" that account number. SLICK!!!
Agreed. When I first read of the one-use credit card number, I was very impressed, and can only hope that Visa adopts a similar scheme soon.
Yes-- Stolen ID's-- are becoming a bigger and bigger problem-- SS#'s are not supposed to be used for id purposes-- but my college used it as my ID#, and some HMO's do the same--and lots of people who have no need for them ask for them.
Once i had to go into US state dept. office (US Mission to UN) and they wanted my SS# to run a "security check" -- i asked for head of security department-- and told him SS# can not be used for this purpose-- he rolled his eyes, and gave me a weary look- and said--Ok, you pass your civics test--your right-- but i have a job to do..
Police demand to see SS card when you are arrested-- and enter number into court records! Public documents! and since Birth certificates are also public-- bingo-- with some effort-- some one could look up birth records- get "mother's Maiden name"- the other "key" with social securty# to your fiscal identity!-- I am normally not too paranoid-- but somethings make me crazy!
Thank Heavens! And special thanks to all who responded to my tale so kindly. What scared me was she was not alone, even in her State. When I spoke to the Officer later he said the problem has increased exponentially in last five years. Scary. The Discover card one-use number sounds good ... but I shall await developments. (Cautious old coot emoticon) On the back of the SS card I had way back in the 1940s, it was printed that it was federal offense to use Social Security for identification. Does anyone know if they changed that federal law? I tell that to people who ask for mine ! (Glad others do too.) Sometime in the mid-1960s (Viet Nam war years) the Armed Forces stopped using military "serial number" and changed to SS number. I still remember my late husband's "old" serial number. My Dad, uncles and brothers could reel off thiers at will. Once learned never forgotten. (Betcha' wwh can remember his!) Of course the military requires giving up many of the privacy rights enjoyed by civilians! Could it be the military started something that was taken up by other institution? Excuse me while I go write my Senator and Congressman ... wow
Could it be the military started something that was taken up by other institution?
I think it has more to do with computer systems databases Your SS# is only yours(Hah), it's really only the last 4 digits.
The college I work for it is also the student ID, creating file problems for our alien students. Your only number is not correct for all those who are or have gone through process of becoming a citizen.
I had to get them for Girls as soon as they were born so the state could keep track of some my student aid stuff. Next year I will do a search on all 3 of our numbers for social security earned, to make sure mine is still fixed & there has none.
In the early 80's the IRS figured out that SS administration had issued my origanal # to 5 women of assorted ages, in different areas of the US. Our first,last & middle names, birth day & month were the same. At least the first one sort of made sense even our fathers first & last names were the same(both very common)
It's made me slightly paranoid about SSA information, not that I expect there to be any money for me or the girls to collect when were of age.
In Massachusetts, your Social Security number is also the number on your driver's licence. No way of keeping it secret. I have seen several horror stories about identity theft, and it does seem that the police are insufficiently helpful about solving such problems
In Massachusetts, your Social Security number is also the number on your driver's licence.
Not just that. When you get a sales and use tax number for business, it's your SS# also. Imagine giving a business your SS# just to loose the tax! I haven't used mine for purchases because of that... I need to get a federal number ASAP. (You can do the same for the driver's license too).
Dear Posters: I received a Private from a member who was upset by my writing : On other hand, perhaps some lean, tough years taught me to be more money conscious. The Poster thought I meant my statement as a criticism of younger folks. Please believe that was not my intention. If others were offended by what must have seemed to them to be a pretentious statement, I apologize for any upset caused. wow
*i* just wanted to state, for the record, that reading your post made me think just a bit about my capricious attitude towards such things. (funny... my husband can say it til he's blue in the face, yet when a relative stranger mentions the importance of banking security it somehow takes on greater importance... but then, you're a stranger whose wisdom i admire )
as for any of your posts being offensive... no worries! we have Sparteye for that!
Welcome, Seian. This is a pretty strange land, all right!
wow, you said, received a Private from a member who was upset by my writing : On other hand, perhaps some lean, tough years taught me to be more money conscious. The Poster thought I meant my statement as a criticism of younger folks.
Well now, this sounds to me like someone was a little bit paranoid. There was no ref. to age, at all. And rather a lot of young adults have had "some lean, tough years", too.
Also--I hope there was a private joke/explanation behind that remark about Sparteye, none of whose posts I have found to be offensive.
There most definitely was a private joke... or i owe Ann a PM... i was referring to her *hilarious* picking up of the gauntlet in another thread. (Ann.... you did realize that, right???)
Hmm, maybe Bean can help me out on this but I don't think we use our SS for anything other than government identification (eg. setting up your tax situation in a company, paying taxes, et al).
In Québec our medicare number, our driver`s license, employee number are all different. Makes for a lot of numbers to remember.
Oh, yeah. And in parking meters, public telephones, toll road baskets, laundromat washers and dryers ... so if you travel in USA, find a Bank and get a couple of rolls of quarters ($5 per roll) and bunch of one dollar bills. Some vending machines are set up to provide change but not all are ... and sometimes the machines which are supposed to give you change do not ! so I make sure I have a few $1s on hand at all times! When travelling, the ashtray is a handy place to keep the quarters and a few $1s. wow
And as I said before, use correct amount when purchasing packets of stamps from vending machines in US Post Office, or you get in your change those censored deleted unprinted silver dollars that are so easily mistaken for quarters.
That's right, my whriendly WhanganuiaTaran, gloat away. Here in little ole Hicksville (LIU), we don't yet have them newfangled vending macvhines wot takes them EFTPOS cards. When they does gets here, I'll be usin 'em.
Reminds me of seeing a little kid whining to his mother that he put is money in the gum machine, but didn't get any gum. In strong ethnic accent, his mother coached him: "So beng it a leedle!" There were also some "phreaks" years ago who could fool phone operator into thinking they had deposited a coin by belting the box. So, CK, are you a vending machine phreak?
All right, what are you all on about? Doesn't everybody put money in vending machines? Is junk food free in other countries???? [colour me confused emoticon]
BelMarduk asked Doesn't everybody put money in vending machines? Is junk food free in other countries
For my part, I took CapKiwi'squestion to be a refrence to the latest generation of vending machines that are starting to pop up here in NZ. These new machines are operated by cards, either credit cards or debit (POS) cards. Some use rechargeable swipe cards which come in set values and have the appropriate sum deducted from their memory after each use. The more I waffle on about these new vending machines, the less likely it seems to me that they were what CapK had in mind. Kindly ignore the above babblings.
That's right, my whriendly WhanganuiaTaran, gloat away. Here in little ole Hicksville (LIU), we don't yet have them newfangled vending macvhines wot takes them EFTPOS cards. When they does gets here, I'll be usin 'em.
I wasn't sniggering, I was shocked. I thought that you just banged them on the side and they coughed up whatever it was you wanted, and that they know what you want through AI telepathy. I, um, never use them at all, you see!
And in answer to wwh's suggestion that I might be a phone phreak, please sir! Have more respect for my integrity! I used a small copper strip which you inserted behind the face plate of the phone to hold the money lever down while I stole phone time, my good man. None of this crass and unnecessary vandalism for me, no sirree! (And I haven't done THAT since about 1960. I think the Statute of Limitations applies or at least that's what I'll claim.)
I used a small copper strip which you inserted behind the face plate of the phone to hold the money lever down while I stole phone time, my good man
My stepgrother used to be able to make free phone calls from the older coin phones by tapping the connector button thingies to bring the number to 0. So, for example 878 2754 would be 232 8356. I never had the dexterity to pull off the rapid sequence of taps required. This enabled me to adopt an utterly spurious air of moral superiority.
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