#19473
02/17/2001 2:26 PM
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Am I the only one here who's tired of seeing corporations inventing stupid names for their companies? For example, there's a drug and sundry store chain here in the US that calls itself, "Rite-Aid." By all rights, it should be a religious supply store. Are those high-dollar advertising people really THAT stupid? The local telephone company used to call itself "US West Communications," a name that clearly suggested location and purpose. Now they've changed their name to "Qwest." What in Hell, or Oregon, or anywhere else, is that supposed to mean? To my feeble old mind, it only means that they can't spell, and have lost all corporate identity! Your comments, please!
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#19474
02/17/2001 3:18 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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We're about to get the marketing dept's [depth] "all insulted", especially because they feel they have some deeper understanding of society that the "commoner" can't see, but IS looking at... My ol'man [Olaf] was a little p'd [Pablo] when he heard the term xerox as a verb, and it meant nothing to him that it was the process of xerography [Xerox] that was being done, or the fact that because it became such a common word (I'm sure the marketing dept [depth] at Xerox was happy) he had a job for 20yrs. Geoff, I believe you have touched on one of the faster ways in which language develops new words... not that I'm disappointed with that... http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=wordplay&Number=13883 (I thought I would leave AEnigma attached.... "My Olaf was a little Pablo"  , and those "dept's" do have "depth")
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#19475
02/17/2001 10:03 PM
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Geoff, I think these names are invented so that the companies can stand out in the slew of companies that are doing exactly the same thing.
Take for example a shoe stores. There can be hundreds of shoe stores in every city, thousands in one state. If they all called themselves, say, Oregon Shoe Store ... a) how could you tell them apart? b) how dull would that be?
Everything has to do with attracting the client. Again, with shoes...say you have a store that sells specialized shoes for people who have foot problems. Customers would more likely go to a store called Tender tootsies than one called Shoes for Problem Feet.
The same applies to your Qwest example. Telecommunications companies want to appear high-tech and up-to-date. US West Communications makes the company appear dated. When wooing new clients everything from your company logo to your receptionist has to make a good first impression.
I agree that misspelled words are an annoyance however since kids see these words over and over and believe the spelling to be correct.
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#19476
02/17/2001 10:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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>I agree that misspelled words are an annoyance however since kids see these words over and over and believe the spelling to be correct.
Absolutely! How are we expected to write Toys R Us when there isn't a character for the backwards R! [back to reading about ASCII emoticon, although I'm pretty sure it isn't there ... mumble, mumble]
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#19477
02/18/2001 2:05 AM
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Absolutely! How are we expected to write Toys R Us when there isn't a character for the backwards R!
The only good thing about Toys R Us is that I can go into one of them and have at least 50% of their clerks get my name right. The downside is that they think I'm a giraffe.
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#19478
02/18/2001 2:13 AM
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The same applies to your Qwest example. Telecommunications companies want to appear high-tech and up-to-date. US West Communications makes the company appear dated. When wooing new clients everything from your company logo to your receptionist has to make a good first impression.
They do this by displaying illiteracy and obfuscation? I am not impressed in any positive way.
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#19479
02/18/2001 3:10 PM
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Dear Geoff the Giraffe, I agree with you in principle but I must say I'm a sucker for cute coffee shop names: Witch's Brew and Java Jive are two local ones. However, the trend toward "short-and-punchy-wins-the-race" I find annoying. Southern Bell Telephone is now BellSouth! Bank of Boston is now BankBoston! Go shout elsewhere, corporate types. I too, am not impressed. Then there's the local convenience store chain called "E-Z Serve." I had some Brit friends visiting last year - they couldn't figure it out 
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#19480
02/18/2001 5:54 PM
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Dear Geoff the Giraffe,Dear AS, From our previous exchanges, you know only too well how hard I'm trying to resist the urge to make a pun about sticking my neck out! Southern Bell Telephone is now BellSouth! Bank of Boston is now BankBoston!I also note that Bank of America has discontinued its BA logo, perhpas because it's also the acronym for "Bare A**," and have replaced it with a piece of plaid. At least the two examples you cite reflect some hint of their true identity. Bell is inexorably linked with telephones, and Bank Boston says what and where, even if it's obfuscate. Still, obfuscation in the name of corporate "cuteness" is moronic, in this curmudgeon's not very damned humble opinion!
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#19481
02/18/2001 8:14 PM
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I hate to see perfectly good names shortened.
American Telephone and Telegraph was elegant but they have just legally changed to AT&T.
OTOH, I guess QANTAS is easier to paint on the tail of an aeroplane than the full mouthful!
By the way, all you Aussies, is it true that QANTAS will give you a small discount if you know what the letters stand for, or is it just another myth or wishful thought?
Iknow! I know! waving hand madly in air to catch teacher's attention)
wow
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#19482
02/18/2001 10:49 PM
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AnnaS, I agree with you about the coffee shop names. Boutique names that use puns to refer to what they sell I also think are cute. Whenever I go somewhere English I always love seeing those.
For some reason, this NEVER happens in French. We have very basic names with no word play at all.
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#19483
02/18/2001 10:54 PM
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I guess QANTAS is easier to paint on the tail of an aeroplane than the full mouthful!OK, WOW, let us in on the QANTAS acronym. I'm not an Ozzie, and have never been there, but I know it too. I'll start us off with "Queensland And..." Your turn! 
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#19484
02/19/2001 9:23 AM
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QANTAS - flew with them last week. They bought out Ansett NZ a few months ago. I won't spoil your fun about what the name means, but tell me this:
How do you pronounce it? I mean, QUANTAS would be very easy - kwan-tas. But no "u"? A proofreader at the newspaper I used to work for insisted, in a strictly curmudgeonly way of course, on always pronouncing it "kan-tas". Used to drive his copyholders nuts. Or at least ... I think that's why they were nuts! [confused-on-reflection emoticon]
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#19485
02/19/2001 9:51 AM
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1- You can't trademark an ordinary (correctly spelled) word.
2- You want your brand to be unique, yet easily remembered, so it has to sound half-familiar, half exotic. Who will remember that "Xerox" was derived from greek xeros, dry, for being the first copying process doing away with messy liquids?
3- Corparations want to remain flexible in their expansion of business. So they don't want to be tied to a particular type of article by their brand name. Maybe this is now the unhappy fate of Xerox. Modern names of corporations avoid association with a product, either by using an acronym of their former name (BASF is an early example), or a fully "synthetic" name like e.g. Syngenta ("born" last year).
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#19486
02/19/2001 12:52 PM
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Here's a confusing one...
In the Canadian provinces of Alberta and British Columbia, the phone company is now called "TELUS" (they used to be BCTel and AGT, Alberta Government Telephones). I think they meant it to sound like "Tell us" but instead, it looks like it's an American telephone company - "Tel US". Which it isn't!
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#19487
02/19/2001 12:54 PM
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You want your brand to be unique, yet easily remembered... and Corporations want to remain flexible in their expansion of business. So they don't want to be tied to a particular type of article by their brand name.Well, I guess that explains why General Electric's logo has been around unchanged for a century! No need for cutesy yuppie-sounding tripe. Most products use electricity, so the name has plenty of latitude. It fits your criteria well, with old-fashioned script. So much for being "modern!"
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#19488
02/19/2001 1:06 PM
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In the Canadian provinces of Alberta and British Columbia, the phone company is now called "TELUS"Very interesting! You have a phone company named for an ancient Roman goddess of the Earth and of fertility! They left out one "l," but phonetically it's the same. Tell us if you have a population explosion among telephone users in BC and Alberta! 
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#19489
02/19/2001 2:15 PM
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member
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Well, I guess that explains why General Electric's logo has been around unchanged for a century! No need for cutesy yuppie-sounding tripe. Most products use electricity, so the name has plenty of latitude. It fits your criteria well, with old-fashioned script. So much for being "modern!"
Geoff:
I've done a tiny bit of corporate branding work for GE, it's interesting to note that most of their business now has nothing at all to do with electricity. Their wonderful logo is based on the shape of a fan's rotor blade to reflect one of their earliest products. Most of their marketing these days is to promote their financial assurance services so they never, ever refer to themselves as General Electric anymore. I'm thrilled though that they've kept their old logo intact.
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#19490
02/19/2001 4:05 PM
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OK, WOW, let us in on the QANTAS acronym. I'm not an Ozzie, and have never been there, but I know it too. I'll start us off with "Queensland And..." Your turn!
Sorry to be so long answering. Although my life seems to be mainly this board other things do intrude.
Queensland And Northern Territories Airways Service.
So there! Thought you'd caught me out? HA!
Now about that discount ... nobody knows?
wow
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#19491
02/19/2001 4:14 PM
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Mumbles heard from afar : "There she is making another post." As she shamelessly works her way toward Old Hand status!
There's an apocryphal story about brand names:
The Japanese had just designed and produced another automobile and it was set to go except for a name. The auto makers decided to call a German auto maker for a suggestion When the situation was explained the German asked when they needed an answer.
"Today!" the Japanese said.
In accented English the German said:
"That soon?"
"Thank you" said the Japanese gentleman
And so that's how Datsun go its name.
(Apologies to our German friends. It's meant as a friendly joke!)
wow
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#19492
02/19/2001 5:42 PM
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To demonstrate my remarkable command of the obvious, names like "Rite-Aid" arise from the constraints on usage of everyday names or words in a copyright.
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#19493
02/19/2001 6:30 PM
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Ok, so Sam Walton founded them ... but can anyone explain the reasoning behind Walmart for the store and Walgeen for the pharmacy-convenience stores?
wow
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#19494
02/19/2001 7:24 PM
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wow, Walgreen's came first didn't it? Maybe back then old Sam had a partner named Green. --- As for copyrights, General and Electric are two common words. Does this mean the company's name is not copyrighted? Or was it created before this law? -- And finally, just to annoy Geoff , here's a great example of a corporate name that does nothing to convey what it does and causes problems when you try to look up its website. BellSouth wireless and Verizon (!) wireless merged to form a company called Cingular (cf. seltic). Go figger.
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#19495
02/19/2001 9:21 PM
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wow, I'm devoting myself to the pursuit of this QANTAS discount question, and I'm coming up zeroes. In a brief scan of their website, it only took a couple of maneuvers to find the acronym decipher. So if it's that abundantly available, they might not be so amenable to the discount concept. I'll continue looking... that would give me the perfect excuse to go on an Outback camel trek. "But I got this terrific discount on an airline ticket!"
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#19496
02/19/2001 9:58 PM
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Posts: 38
newbie
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And finally, just to annoy Geoff , here's a great example of a corporate name that does nothing to convey what it does and causes problems when you try to look up its website. BellSouth wireless and Verizon (!) wireless merged to form a company called Cingular (cf. seltic). Go figger.
I heard that Bell South bought both GTE/Amertech cellular from & CellularOne(cingular). The verizon.com sight says they were GTE & Bell Atlantic.
In this area verizon (gte) & cingular (cell1) are in direct competition. I would be nice to talk with my pals with verizon service for free too.
CJ
CJ
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#19497
02/20/2001 12:15 AM
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Posts: 819
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There's an apocryphal story about brand names:
The Japanese had just designed and produced another automobile and it was set to go except for a name.Here's one that's NOT apocryphal: Back in the late sixties Toyota produced a car for the US market they called "Sprinter." With the Japanese difficulty with "R" and "L" differentiation, it sounded as though they had a car named for a wood sliver.
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#19498
02/20/2001 12:19 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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I'm a little confused, but thanks for the who's who, CJ. Anyway, the name Cingular still strikes a singular sour note with me
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#19499
02/20/2001 4:15 AM
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wow, I'm devoting myself to the pursuit of this QANTAS discount question, and I'm coming up zeroes. In a brief scan of their website, it only took a couple of maneuvers to find the acronym decipher. So if it's that abundantly available, they might not be so amenable to the discount concept. I'll continue looking... that would give me the perfect excuse to go on an Outback camel trek. "But I got this terrific discount on an airline ticket!"Okay, today I approached the Qantas information desk and, feeling like a right idiot, asked the question. Blank look, followed by a slight laugh and then eyes moving everywhere while they watered ... I guess the answer is, as I suspected, NO! Actually, for routes that both Qantas and Air New Zealand operate on (which is most of 'em) you can go to either website and get more or less the same prices. If one moves, the other follows, if you follow my moves. However, I'm assured on good authority (moi) that if you are an American and you can point at New Zealand on a map or even point at the correct ocean, they'll let you onto their planes in cattle class if you pay for the ticket ... They don't believe it will significantly increase the number of US citizens flying on their planes!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#19500
02/20/2001 2:57 PM
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Okay, today I approached the Qantas information desk and, asked the question. I guess the answer is, NO!
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Dear Cap K,
Your abridged comment re QANTAS discount for anyone who could correctly tell the airline's name is above for those trying to follow along.
My guess is that perhaps many, many, many, years ago when QANTAS was trying to break into the international market, it MAY have been true. Lacking a really old, retired, QANTAS Old Timer we may never know.
"Ah, sweet mystery of life!"
wow
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#19501
02/20/2001 4:01 PM
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everyone is so serious about all these mergers and names--
did you hear that Xerox, to end its corporate woes is planning a merger with Wurlizter?
or that South west bell was planning a merger with Mexico Telecom?
Xerox is planning on making "reproductive organs" and the new telecom company will be called Tacobell!
(lots more where they came from, and more in the annals of the Economist!)
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#19502
02/20/2001 4:04 PM
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veteran
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I suppose we are all familiar with the trade names which have entered the language as words, such as "xerox" for "photocopier", "kleenex" for "disposable tissue", "coke" for "cola-flavored soda", "kotex" for "sanitary napkin", "vaseline" for "petroleum jelly", et. al. What happens here, of course, is that a manufacturer dreams up a short, snappy name for his product. The product then becomes such a great hit that people use the trade name to denote the product, much to the chagrin of competitors, and after a while, the name goes into dictionaries as a word. What is strange, or stranger, is how manufacturers come up with these names in the first place. Some years ago the Standard Oil co. which produced gasoline under the name "Esso" (short for Standard Oil) decided its image was too old and stuffy, so they decided to change the name and came up with Exxon. There was a lot of criticism at the time because the new name meant absolutely nothing and looked funny with the 2 x's. They kept that for years and it's still around, although I don't see that it ever helped their sales. It seems marketing experts are still at it, dreaming up names which are designed mostly to catch the eye; they don't have to have any meaning whatever.
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#19503
02/20/2001 5:36 PM
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lots more where they came from
Yes, please!
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#19504
02/20/2001 9:23 PM
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enthusiast
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>if you are an American and you can point at New Zealand on a map or even point at the correct ocean, they'll let you onto their planes in cattle class if you pay for the ticket
On his retirement in the early 1960s my grandfather went on a world trip that included the US. He found that many Americans didn't know where Australia was, but for some curious reason they had an idea of New Zealand's whereabouts, so he used to say "Oh, Australia's a small island on the west coast of NZ".
By the way, QANTAS is sometimes referred to here as "Quaint-Ass". If you don't want to fly with them, you can "Fly Ansett and Chance It".
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#19505
02/20/2001 9:31 PM
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veteran
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Americans' ignorance of New Zealand
You think that's bad (so do I). I have to confess with shame that at least 40 percent of my fellow citizens could not tell you where Manitoba or Alberta are. The average American knows no more about Canada than he does about Zild or Oz and that ain't much. As to someplace like Chad, or Bhutan, they don't even know there is such a place.
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#19506
02/20/2001 9:57 PM
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enthusiast
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>As to someplace like Chad, or Bhutan, they don't even know there is such a place.Oh, I think they've heard enough about chad recently to wonder why you'd name a country after one. But seriously, if what you say is true, it's a sad reflection on a tendency towards introspection that must be commonplace in the education system (e.g. geography and history teaching) and in the media, to name a couple of institutions.
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#19507
02/20/2001 9:57 PM
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I suppose we are all familiar with the trade names which have entered the language as words, such as "xerox" for "photocopier", "kleenex" for "disposable tissue", "coke" for "cola-flavored soda", etc
-------------------------------------------------------\
Dear Boby,
When you are going beddy-bye tonight, pray that the omnipresent Legal Eagles from (all) those companies are not reading the Board!
I recall that when I was working for a small weekly a story with the word coke (small c) got past a harried editor
the paper got a package from Coca Cola regarding its copyrighted names including Coke along with several legal citations upholding the company's right to the names!!
When the reporter's birthday came along guess what we bought him a case of?
wow
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#19508
02/20/2001 11:32 PM
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a sad reflection on a tendency towards introspection that must be commonplace in the education system (e.g. geography and history teaching)
Oh, it's true. The Cincinnati Enquirer recently published some history test that was given to college students and, if I remember correctly, most of them weren't able to pass it. Most couldn't even identify the decade in which the Civil War occured! History and geography are two of my favorite subjects, but most schools don't see these as fundamentally important to the educational process. My classmates were amazed that I knew on what island Napoleon was born. I can't see the students at my school scoring this poorly on a history test because I consider most of them fairly intelligent (middle class suburban school district) but I'm not sure.
Grade inflation is also definitely a problem. When 70% (I'm not sure of the actual percentage) of the students in your school are on the honor roll, there's a problem. And it doesn't seem right to me that we have students who haven't taken a single honors course in their entire 4 years in high school who are in the National Honor Society.
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#19509
02/21/2001 1:23 AM
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Some years ago the Standard Oil co. which produced gasoline
under the name "Esso"I understand they changed just so the insects flying around their stations wouldn't be known as Esso bees. 
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#19510
02/21/2001 1:34 AM
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Esso bees
Oh, Honey, I want to give you a stinging comeback for that!
Standard Oil also became Chevron, with the appropriate logo.
I never did know why Sinclair gasoline had a dinosaur logo,
but I can still "hear" that theme song that was on the radio every morning: Sinclair puts that nickel in, puts that magic(?) nickel in, only Sinclair gasoline has nickel, nickel, nickel.
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#19511
02/21/2001 3:21 AM
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>>Some years ago the Standard Oil co. which produced gasoline under the name "Esso"...
>Standard Oil also became Chevron...
for the record, in 1911 J.D. Rockerfeller's Standard Oil Trust was broken up into something like 32 small companies. the major players left standing today include Standard Oil of New Jersey (Esso/Exxon), Standard Oil of New York (Socony/Mobil), Standard Oil [California] (Chevron), Standard Oil of Ohio (Sohio, arm of BP), Standard Oil of Indiana (Amoco), Continental Oil (Conoco), and Atlantic Richfield (ARCO). Each of these could market under the Standard brand in its respective region, but when they started to challenge each other regionally, and later nationally, they had to change brand names to avoid lawsuits. in our region, the Standard name came down, and became Amoco, although the logo looked the same otherwise.
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#19512
02/21/2001 4:54 AM
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In reply to:
I can't see the students at my school scoring this poorly on a history test because I consider most of them fairly intelligent (middle class suburban school district) but I'm not sure.
Sorry, this is my King Charles the First's head. Ignorance and lack of intelligence are not the same thing.
This may or may not be an apocryphal story, but apparently after a very long and complicated explanation of some knotty technical point from one of the counsel in a trial, the judge said "I'm sorry, but I'm none the wiser", to which the lawyer replied "No my Lord, but a great deal better informed."
The students at your school may be better informed than the average, but that doesn't make them any more intelligent than people who haven't had the same quality of instruction. [/rant]
P.S. Sorry if you're feeling picked on, Jazzo.
Bingley
Bingley
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