|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Why do we need the 'of' in ' take X out of the basket' but not in 'put X in the basket'?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
I guess we've sort of elided over the "to" that many other languages maintain to indicate motion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 79
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 79 |
It's not just for motion though. Consider the following pair:
The widgerygrommet is in the basket
*The widgerygrommet is out the basket
It seems "in" can indicate either motion or static condition, but "out" can only indicate motion (except in a usage like "he is out (=not at home)")
I think there's a dialect difference for some prepositions - for me "off" is like "in" - "I lifted the coat off the floor" - where for (some?) Americans "off" is like "out" - "I lifted the coat off of (offa') the floor".
In Latin and German "in" and "out" can be used in either motion or static meanings, and you have to use different noun cases to show which it is. We learned it as "dumpy dative, active accusative".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
and, surely, it really OUGHT to be "take from the basket.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<why do we need>>
We don't. Some take it out the dialect and don't bat an eye.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
Prepositions are just so darned quirky, that any question as to why or how is impossible to answer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
I agree with you about the quirkiness of prepositions, but do these two words in question function as prepositions?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475 |
They seem as much a preposition as into. Then there are more problematic thingees like: outside, outside of, aside, aside from, on top of, except for, besides, &c.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Sometimes it gets a little hard to tell the difference between prepositions and particles of phrasal verbs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027 |
I guess we've sort of elided over the "to" that many other languages maintain to indicate motion.
I tend to think it's the opposite: "to" came to the rescue when the nouns' case endings disappeared in English. Even in Latin, "in" and "out" (ex) do not command the same case. But the Romans had their ablative to hand. In German, "to" is not needed because we still have the dative ("aus dem Korb" movement or no movement).
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,809
Members9,187
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
465
guests, and
2
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
