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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Page 1 of 2 1 2 rant #126169 03/26/04 08:35 AM Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,027 Switzerland wsieber OP old hand OP wsieber old hand Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,027 Switzerland In an otherwise serious trade journal, I just read the phrase: "These machines represent the first truly new innovations.." What's next? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: rant #126170 03/26/04 12:23 PM Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 11,613 Louisville, Kentucky Jackie Carpal Tunnel Jackie Carpal Tunnel Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 11,613 Louisville, Kentucky More, please. Is that the entire sentence, or does it go on with something, maybe along the lines of ..."in advancing this particular technique"? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: rant #126171 03/26/04 02:35 PM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 13,858 W wwh Carpal Tunnel wwh Carpal Tunnel W Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 13,858 Instead of "innovations", "truly new improvements" Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: rant #126172 03/26/04 02:39 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Yeah. I was all set to rant against the rant along the lines of Jackie's question when it occurred to me that the complaint was probably about the 'new innovations'. And *that got me wondering, do they stop being innovations when they are no longer new? Henry Ford's adaptation of the assembly line to automobile production was truly an innovation, but the assembly line in autmobile production today is not. Does that mean that Henry Ford's feat is no longer an innovation? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: rant #126173 03/26/04 02:45 PM Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,475 California J jheem veteran jheem veteran J Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,475 California Are you sure? I thought it was the geminate period or the dropped third period of the ellipsis. When does an innovation become old hat? How do we distinguish Victorian innovations from Georgian ones? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter do they stop being innovations #126174 03/26/04 02:48 PM Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 3,467 Marion NC TEd Remington Carpal Tunnel TEd Remington Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 3,467 Marion NC Nope, they are still innovative in the milieu in which they were introduced. The assmebly line was new for its time and was thus an invention. Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin (or at least gets credit for it.) Neither is new now, but everything was new once. Even I! But that was a LONG time ago. I guess you could say that innovation is time-sensitive. TEd Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: rant #126175 03/26/04 04:28 PM Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Carpal Tunnel Country G grapho addict grapho addict G Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Carpal Tunnel Country Does that mean that Henry Ford's feat is no longer an innovation? No. It just means it's no longer a new innovation. The word "innovation" includes the word "nov" for new, as you know. Therefore, you can have old innovations or innovations which are no longer new, but you can't have "new" innovations ... unless the other innovations aren't really innovations at all, in which case you can have a "truly new innovation". Hope this helps, Faldage. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter When do they start being innovations? #126176 03/26/04 05:58 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 2,661 Chicago musick Carpal Tunnel musick Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 2,661 Chicago The assmebly line was new for its time and was thus an invention. Although this may *somehow be true when it comes to automobile assembly, I find this particular claim a wee bit (if not overbearingly) unbelievable. Mass production, no matter what "Ford" history may claim, wasn't invented. That's like someone inventing laziness. The "bucket brigade" method of fighting fires is certainly describing the exact method, however simple the task may be in comparison... but, then again, that's the whole point, isn't it? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: When do they start being innovations? #126177 03/26/04 07:07 PM Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,379 New York City I inselpeter Pooh-Bah inselpeter Pooh-Bah I Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,379 New York City >>bucket brigade<< The difference being that apart from the first and last positions on the line (respectively, gathering and throwing water), the tasks are undifferentiated nor is it production, unless of a service. However, the assembly line presupposes standardization or parts which, I have it on poor authority, was an innovation of Elie Whitney's. Or at least of gun manufacturers. According to an article that appeared in the Economist several years ago, this had repurcussions in the American Civil War, when guns were first mass produced. Further, it has ramifications for the interpretataion of the original intention of the right to bear arms. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: When do they start being innovations? #126178 03/26/04 07:24 PM Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Carpal Tunnel Country G grapho addict grapho addict G Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Carpal Tunnel Country Mass production, no matter what "Ford" history may claim, wasn't invented. You're certainly right about that, Musick, but Henry Ford put his assembly line on the road to mass production. That probably wasn't an invention. But it was one heck of an innovation, wouldn't you agree. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Page 1 of 2 1 2 Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------  Information and announcements  Q&A about words  Wordplay and fun  Words and languages in schools  Miscellany  Weekly Themes  Looking for (writers, speakers,... (Old) Weekly themes. 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