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fall (v.) - O.E. feallan (class VII strong verb; past tense feoll, pp. feallen), from P.Gmc. *fallanan (cf. O.N. falla, O.H.G. fallan), from PIE base *phol- "to fall" (cf. Armenian p'ul "downfall," Lith. puola "to fall," O.Prus. aupallai "finds," lit. "falls upon"). Noun sense of "autumn" (now only in U.S.) is 1664, short for fall of the leaf (1545). That of "cascade, waterfall" is from 1579. Most of the figurative senses had developed in M.E. Meaning "to be reduced" (as temperature) is from 1658. To fall in love is 1530; to fall asleep is 1393. Fall guy is from 1906. Fallout "radioactive particles" is from 1950. Fallen "morally ruined" is from 1628.http://www.etymonline.com/f1etym.htmautumn - c.1380, from O.Fr. autumpne, from L. autumnus, a word probably of Etruscan origin. Harvest was the Eng. name for the season until autumn began to displace it 16c. In Britain, the season is popularly August through October; in U.S., September through November.
http://www.etymonline.com/a7etym.htm
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old hand
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OP
old hand
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I thank y'all....I figured "fall" was more in use in North America, and "autumn" was more a UK usage. I like "autumn" better somehow, but I do seem to use the two words interchangeably, thereby continuing to tread water in mid-Atlantic language mode.
As far as the articles go, I liked your point, Faldage - tending to use "the" when referring to a specific season and dropping it when referring to the season generically. Good distinction, and one I prolly make myself if I'd stopped to think about it.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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OK, so what Mav found is the correct details that i almost got right.. until 1664 (and that a record date for the use of the word in source it was most likely in spoken use long before that,) the season was 'harvest', but then fall began to be used (Noun sense of "autumn" (now only in U.S.) is 1664), and about the same time, autumn began to be used as well, (Harvest was the Eng. name for the season until autumn began to displace it 16c)
so both Fall and Autumn started to displace Harvest at the same time englanders were moving to NE. (mid 1600's) Fall won out here, (but we also know autumn) Autumn won out in UK, (and the meaning of Fall as a season was lost in UK)
Harvest is still used in a festive sense -- Harvest moon, and Harvest festivals and what not --well it is here, i presume its also used in UK as as well.
so i got the gist of right, and sjm posted almost at the same time (not a mantle, dear, just proof that great minds do think alike!) and Mav got down and dirty and gave us the facts!
in the book Year of Wonder, set in 1663, the narrator calls the time of year 'leaf fall' and harvest. She uses 'leaf fall' as chapter heading, and both words in the text. i didn't include 'leaf fall' as interesting word, because i thought it too common and well known.
While those in UK and up under don't use Fall, and we USer's don't use 'lorry', i think they represent words we we know, even if we don't generally use them.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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A long time ago we discussed the American penchant for altering English books to avoid straining their kiddies' brains. Does Mr. Tumnus in The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe become Mr. Al?
Bingley
Bingley
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Carpal Tunnel
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Idiotic to change English books. Just my opinion. At the best, footnotes could be provided.
Here's a personal aside:
Although I haven't been able to confirm this with a reputable source, the questionable sources for name derivation show that my own name, Theresa, originally meant 'The Harvester.' I like this, especially since my astrological sign is Virgo, also a harvester. No, I don't believe in astrology in any way.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Fall leaf raking is a real pain.
Not now, Bill! The Yard Man comes and runs a little machine over the lawn and gobbles up all the leaves into a bag on the back of the machine which he empties and carts off to the dump.
Or
People have "leaf blowers" sort of reverse vaacums that blow the leaves into a big pile that is is placed in biodegradable bags and put out for the annual autumn collection.
As for leaf burning. No more that marvelous smell of burning leaves! Permits are needed for outdoor fires now aand the Fire Dept gets very shirty and douses the pile with water...charges you ... and then what a mess to clean up wet soggy charred leaves. Yuck.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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When I moved from Kamloops in the interior (borderline desert) to the coastal rainforest I wondered why everyone was so obsessive about raking leaves right away. Until I discovered that instead of the marvellous scrunch of autumn leaves underfoot in the fall there was a slippery squelsh. I still walk in the leaves when I can find the crisp dry ones. Who cares if people stare!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear wow: I saw a leaf vacuum a long time ago, but it had a problem about getting jammed too often. I suppose in the meantime they have improved them, but I haven't seen one.
The blowing idea is stupid. It just moves the leaves slowly from one place to another, and the next breezed undoes the work.
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Carpal Tunnel
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down and dirty
yep, I was only confirming your membrance, Helen - plus I thought the dates of a few of the other fall usages were quite illuminating too.
But where they get that crap about UK English autumns referring to AUGUST I just have no idea! ~ I would have said anyone in the UK is likely to place that month as high summer, and autumn starting in September but. Anyone confirm or affirm otherwise?
But the more I think about this issue of prepositions, the more confusimicatedified I get... 'in Spring a young man's fancy' (example of the generic concept of all spring seasons) yet 'In the autumn I dislike the darkening evenings'... 'In winter I eat chilli' yet 'In the autumn I get chilly'... 'Autumn is a cruel time for digging potatoes' yet 'The autumn is one of my favo(u)rite times of year'...
and when I try to make sense of any possible patterns in other forms, such as referring to a week or the week ~ argh!
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old hand
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old hand
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But where they get that crap about UK English autumns referring to AUGUST I just have no idea! ~ I would have said anyone in the UK is likely to place that month as high summer, and autumn starting in September but. Anyone confirm or affirm otherwise?
Well, your description fits the pattern here -August is the nadir of winter, and Spring starts in September.
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