#99845
04/02/2003 2:18 AM
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From a USn detective story I'm reading:
Not far away, the lady's disembodied right arm lies against the trunk of a pecan tree.
Does anyone else find this use of "disembodied" strange?
Bingley
Bingley
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#99846
04/02/2003 3:15 AM
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Dear Bingley: That use of "disembodied" is so stupid I can't veven make fun of it.
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#99847
04/02/2003 5:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
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old hand
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old hand
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I would have chosen a more descriptive adjective, such as grisly or severed.
The lady's arm is by the tree, said Tom detachedly.
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#99848
04/02/2003 6:00 AM
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>Does anyone else find this use of "disembodied" strange?
not really.. but why a pecan tree?
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#99849
04/02/2003 8:56 AM
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Hey, it's detective fiction. One of the purposes of great detective fiction is to make you grin. That sentence is a very good example of the kinds of sentences that are supposed to make you grin. Instead of manipulating your emotions with grisly descriptions, the detective writer introduces the grisly, but with a comic twist. This sentence not only gives you the disembodied arm, which is detective writer humor through word choice, but also gives the pecan tree, which is detective writer humorous use of supplied detail. When I read the sentence cold, I immediately thought, "Oh, here's a detective story writer."
I did check out several dictionaries, being a good little AWADer, and disembodied, as shown in Bingley's quote, works. There are several dictionaries that showed that disembodied could simply mean unattached from the body--not a use I've heard before, but, hey, it's there--even in Cambridge. That's why tsuwm wrote that he didn't find the use strange. tsuwm knows these things. He's just got to develop his ear for hearing detective story detail, especially when humorously used, as in the 'pecan tree.'
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#99850
04/02/2003 9:48 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Most detective stories drive me nuts. That's where the disembodied mind astral planes over the vista. Or something. And speaking of detective stories, which I wasn't, one of the best quotes I've ever read, almost Wilde-ish in its perspicacity, was PJ O'Rourke describing Mogadishu in 1993: "It resembled the scene of a crime where the victim has fled, but the murderer remained."
- Pfranz
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#99851
04/02/2003 11:45 AM
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the lady's disembodied right arm
Now if it were "disarticulated" it would be technically more accurate, and more obviously inappropriate. For me "disembodied" carries with it a feeling of "...yet intact in all other ways, and even functional," which isn't present in the usage you cite.
(Or, in fewer words, Yes, I think it's strange, too. [But that's probably the reason the author chose it.])
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#99852
04/02/2003 1:56 PM
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In reply to:
Hey, it's detective fiction. One of the purposes of great detective fiction is to make you grin. That sentence is a very good example of the kinds of sentences that are supposed to make you grin. Instead of manipulating your emotions with grisly descriptions, the detective writer introduces the grisly, but with a comic twist. This sentence not only gives you the disembodied arm, which is detective writer humor through word choice, but also gives the pecan tree, which is detective writer humorous use of supplied detail. When I read the sentence cold, I immediately thought, "Oh, here's a detective story writer."
The pecan tree is a joke? Why? The setting is a town called Austin in Texas in the 1880s. I just assumed that it would be hard to put down an unattached arm you happened to have about you in a public park in that time and place without it being near a pecan tree (not that I have much idea of what a pecan tree looks like or how common they are -- I assume fairly common because pecan pies seem to be a common comestible).
No, my quarrel was with disembodied. My immediate association for a disembodied arm would be a seance or something of the sort with an arm floating about by itself or brushing unseen against the participants. If I was playing word association with disembodied I would probably reply voice.
Bingley
Bingley
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#99853
04/02/2003 6:20 PM
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Posts: 555
addict
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addict
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Comestible.....Nice word, Bingley
As for 'disembodied', I agree with what you are saying about the association, but the usage with arm, also feels right to me.
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#99854
04/02/2003 6:29 PM
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True, Bingle, disembodied for me is *usually associated with a more astral variety of disconnection, such as a disembodied spirit. But, still, the usage of disembodied in the sentence you described didn't really bother me, and immediately produced a clear image of a complete, severed limb. Would you have preferred: "The severed arm lay askew against the base of the pecan tree, its bloody tendons staining the once-aromatic bark."...? disembodied>disemboweled Is a disemboweled body disembodied from its bowels...or vice versa? Grisly, isn't it? 
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#99855
04/02/2003 10:21 PM
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Re: Comestible.....Nice word, Bingley
Yes it is, isn't it! i use it regularly. Grocery shopping takes on a festive air, when one can announce that "you are procuring comestilbes for the family larder."
and My dear Mr Bingley, pecan pie, is not a simple comestible, but a bit of heaven, made edible!
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#99856
04/03/2003 2:05 AM
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In reply to:
Would you have preferred:
"The severed arm lay askew against the base of the pecan tree, its bloody tendons staining the once-aromatic bark."...?
Not particularly, no. Though it would be interesting to be told that pecan tree bark is aromatic. Since one of the main thoroughfares is called Pecan Street, I was apparently right in my conjecture that pecan trees are quite common in those parts.
I must admit that I've only ever had pecan pie once. I wouldn't refuse another helping, but it's not something I feel any urge to seek out.
Bingley
Bingley
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#99857
04/03/2003 7:43 AM
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Bingley, I don't think the pecan tree was a joke--but just an interesting detail and a humorous detail. Detective fiction writers are repositories of all kinds of details. I don't read detective fiction anymore, but when I did, I enjoyed the details.
Now about pecan trees: You might like them, Bingley. They are not aromatic trees, say, the way Atlantic cedars, which are actually junipers, are. Pecan trees have compound leaves, which gives the leaves a vaguely tropical appearance though they're not tropical trees. They can grow to be quite tall--I've seen pecan trees at least eighty tall, not unusual for such trees.
We planted some very young pecan trees on the farm about 20 years ago, and I'll tell you one thing: They are slow-growing hardwoods! They're only about twenty feet tall now.
Secret ingredients for highly successful pecan pies: One whole stick of real butter; Karo white corn syrup (no joke--makes a better pie than the darker syrups).
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#99858
04/03/2003 8:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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...pecan pie, is not a simple comestible, but a bit of heaven, made edible! ~ of troy
Yeah...! But...the best slice of pecan pie I have had was the first, from a café in San Antonio, Texas, and it matched your description. I have been trying to repeat the experience ever since without quite succeeding, even in the same café.
Does this say something about how memory and palate are connected? Or are the poets right and first experiences always more memorable?
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#99859
04/03/2003 9:53 AM
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In reply to:
Does this say something about how memory and palate are connected? Or are the poets right and first experiences always more memorable?
At about the same time you were posting this, a friend and I were discussing the very same thing, only the connection was corn on the cob, mexican style! Helen comes back and this thread takes a walk into food thread territory! They say that first impressions do make lasting memories, but it is always a good idea to try things again throughout your life. Maybe the first time isn't always the best, but, good or bad, it does stick in your mind, doesn't it? Perhaps with food it's linked to survival.
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#99860
04/03/2003 11:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
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Grocery shopping takes on a festive air, when one can announce that "you are procuring comestilbes for the family larder."I love your turns of phrase, helen! 
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#99861
04/03/2003 1:26 PM
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As a family, we always used a rich vocabulary, and my kids, while they don't frequent AWAD, do still have, more often than not, the right word.
Once, as a child, my daughter, still abed at 11 AM, was told by her father, "Get out of bed with alacrity!" she rolled over, looked at her father, and said, "Alacrity can get up if she wants, but i want to stay in bed" and rolled back under the covers. Her father wanted to continue being stern, but we were both laughing so hard, it was impossible!
it has spoilled the word for me..i can never use it, or even hear it, without a half a smile.
Once year, we openly discussed if our son was old enough to scullery...(just before the holidays) He pleaded, and his sister claimed, "not fair", she want to scullery, too. neither of them bothered to look up the word... and starting that year, both kids were responsible for clearing the table, loading the dishwasher and cleaning up in the kitchen!
ephemeral(one of Dr bill's words below the fold)was also commonly used... we always warned the kids, verbal assent to many of their requests was ephemeral...
can we go to disney world? yeah, sure.
but since we didn't go right then and there, tomorrow we were free to make other plans.
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#99862
04/03/2003 1:59 PM
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In reply to:
it has spoilled the word for me..i can never use it, or even hear it, without a half a smile.
My word for this is infamy. I cannot hear it or read it without immediately thinking of Kenneth Williams as Julius Caesar rushing out of the Senate House exclaiming, "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me."
Bingley
Bingley
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#99863
04/03/2003 3:17 PM
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"I told you to keep your pecan pickin' hands off my pecans", Tom said sharply.
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#99864
04/03/2003 4:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161
member
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is pecan pie a relative of pecan nut?
it is a serious question, I've never even heard about a pecan nut until 1998 and about a pecan pie until 2003
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#99865
04/03/2003 4:44 PM
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Yes, vika, a pecan pie is a pie (in the USn sense) made with pecan nuts.
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#99866
04/03/2003 5:07 PM
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risking making this a food thread again, pecan pie is type of custard pie, the custard is made with lots of butter, corn syrup (dextrose syrup), eggs, vanilla and salt. Whole or chopped pecans are added to a pie crust, covered with the custard mixture, and baked. The pecans float to the top of the custard. Leave out the pecans, and you have Chess Pie. --the story about how Chess Pie got its name is, a young 'un, from south of the Mason-Dixon line (south eastern part of US)served up some pie, and when asked what kind of pie it was, she replied, "It's just pie" only the It's just came out sounding more like chess. down below the fold, in response to one of the words in one of Dr Bill's threads, i included some information on how dextrose,(corn syrup)got it name-- http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=beheadingwords&Number=97709
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#99867
04/03/2003 5:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
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Pecan custard pie is a type of pecan pie, and I've had pecan apple and banana pecan more often... but, I'm not much of a pie eater... 
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#99868
04/03/2003 6:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
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In reply to:
, the custard is made with lots of butter, corn syrup (dextrose syrup), eggs, vanilla and salt.
...and a teaspoon of vinegar.
The amazing thing about the pecans is you can arrange them in a lovely pattern upon that pie crust, and during the baking the pecans will rise to the top of the custard in the same pattern. Very cool.
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#99869
04/03/2003 8:19 PM
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And is a chamber pot a pecan?
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#99870
04/04/2003 1:37 AM
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#99871
04/04/2003 2:50 AM
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I'm not much of a pie eater...
And here I've been thinking you were partial to blueberry pie...
Um--I thought, to qualify as custard, the substance had to have milk or cream in it. Though what else to call chess pie, I have no idea. It certainly has the consistency of custard.
dxb, I have often experienced that "no other is as good as the first time" sensation, and though I am not sure, I will guess that it partly has to do with our expectations. If we have none, or if the experience far exceeds them, then we are filled with a sense of wonder. After the first time, we cannot help but have expectations; and if our memories have elevated the experience, then we are pretty well bound to be disappointed with the follow-ups.
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#99872
04/04/2003 5:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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we are pretty well bound to be disappointed with the follow-ups.
Sad isn't it!
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#99873
04/04/2003 9:55 AM
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Jackie,
I thought that 'custard' sounded off also, but figured that Helen knew more about cooking than I do, so I yielded to her on that one. But you're right. I checked Onelook and custard was defined as having ingredients of eggs and milk.
So what is it that pecan pie has filling it other than pecans? Well, filling! Ha!
Wonder what a filling of basically eggs and sugar--or eggs, corn syrup and sugar--could be called additionally? We have discussed meringue here--whipped egg whites and sugar--and said there wasn't a good etymological breakdown of the word meringue. Meringue was just meringue.
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#99874
04/04/2003 9:35 PM
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a proper custard is eggs and milk (cooked stove top till it just coats the back of a spoon, then slowly baked in a bane marie till it sets)
but pies like pecan, chess, shoo-fly, pumpkin, coconut and even lemon meringue, (which also has no milk, but lemon juice,water and eggs)are all considered custard type pies. Pumpkin, sweet potato, and coconut pies all do have milk, as well as their title ingredient, but not a lot.
sho-fly pie is a similar custard (to pecan or chess), made with molasses, not corn syrup, and it usally has a crumb topping.
Key lime is also considered a custard type pie, and nowdays, is often cooked, and does have eggs, but originally, it was just sweetened condensed milk, and key lime juice.
(and you can make a caramel custard pie by just baking sweetened condensed milk..no eggs.)
'pudding pies', like black bottom, or mississipi mud pies are consided custard, even when they are made with instant pudding (american style milk puddings)-- are they aren't cooked, and don't have any eggs. these also are some times called cream pies, (especial if they banana instead of chocolate) but a cream usually just means garnished with whipped cream, just as a la mode(in US--i don't know about else where) means "served with ice cream".
our friends in the UK (and perhaps up under) are familiar no doubt with Bird's Custard, a milk custard that is prepared without egg and used as sause, not custard as we americans usually think of custard. any one who is into french cooking would know it as a creme anglais --
I would check a cook book,(Joy of Cooking or other) for a definition of custard, not a dictionary--
(pies are usually classified as custard or non custard. non custard pies are usually fruit pies (and or vegetable, like rhubarb, or savory, like meat pies.)
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#99875
04/04/2003 10:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
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And, of troy, your mini lecture on pies doesn't surprise me at all!
I still wouldn't think of a pecan pie as being a custard pie, cookbooks aside. I do think of custards as having milk, as Jackie suggests--but my thinking could be absolutely incorrect and just based on limited experience. From what you wrote, I learned that pies are classified as custard and non-custard, but I've never heard of that before. And chess pies don't appear to be custards to me--although you've written that they are. So be it. My impression of 'custard' moves out a bit--but it still feels weird. A milkless custard. But I suppose that's just an instance of cognitive dissonance. A concept is strange at first, and then you just accept it--because of cookbooks. Fine.
A quiche seems easy to accept as a type of custard pie over a chess pie, however.
[tangent alert:]And we shouldn't forget Mary Poppins' observation: "Piecrust promises: Easily made and easily broken."
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#99876
04/04/2003 10:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
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would a pecan pie seem more custard like if you used heavy cream instead of melted butter?
You can, and the finished prodcuct is so close to the the butter version, but has a slightly more opaque filling. I suspect you could do the same for chess pie. (never had chess pie, myself, but i read cookbooks as well as dictionaries!)
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