#81015
09/17/2002 11:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Here are two defintions of "water table":
"Water table \Water table\ (Hydraulic Engin.)
The upper limit of the portion of the ground wholly saturated
with water. The water table may be within a few inches of the surface or many feet below it.
From WordNet (r) 1.6 [wn]
water table
n : underground surface below which the ground is wholly saturated with water: "spring rains had raised the water table" [syn: {water level}, {groundwater level}]"
So, water tables are underground water table tops. Right? And what, then, would you call water that has drenched the land, say, several inches from surface downward? It sounds like those spring rains affect the water table top, but they also affect the surface of the land itself, at least temporarily. In other words, what do you call the depth of saturation of the ground level water?
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#81016
09/18/2002 2:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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#81017
09/18/2002 7:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 45
newbie
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newbie
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 45 |
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#81018
09/18/2002 1:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear WW: you live in a place where water table is seldom a problem when you want
to dig or drive a well. But how would you feel if some industry appeared close to
you and lovered the water table by as much as a thousand feet? When your well
went dry, you would understand the word all too 'well'.
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#81019
09/18/2002 3:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692 |
Dear WW, Groundwater is the term used for water that is always present below the ground often adjacent to lakes, rivers, the sea shore or else trapped in aquifers. As you surmise the water table does go up and down depending on weather conditions, or if someone, as wwh says, draws off water in your area that causes a local dip in the water table around the pump out, or dewatering, point. I'm far from an expert as my only concern, professionally, is what to do if it contains minerals, such as sulphur, that attack concrete and damage building foundations, tunnels etc. However here is a link that contains some good stuff simply presented. http://www.groundwater.org/GWBasics/gwbasics.htmIf you Google ground water (as two words) you'll find you can access The Ground Water Atlas of the United States. Have fun! dxb
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#81020
09/18/2002 3:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872 |
Thank Heaven I'm here. Ah hem, ________ ***--> THE ZONE OF SATURATION<-- ***________ Thank you, thank you very much. Go home Ladies, Milo has left the building. 
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#81021
09/18/2002 5:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
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There used to be a set of gags entitled:"The height of insolence". Not a gag, but surely
the height of insolence, LA gets its water from a place about sixty miles to northeast.
LA wastes water horrendously. I see gutters flowing all the time from lawn irrigation
excess. The community near where our water comes from is understandably bitter about
our lowering water table there drastically. But a proposal to reclaim LA waste water and
pumpt it back to its place of origin, there was an outcry that we would then be drinking
"toilet water".
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#81022
09/18/2002 6:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Thanks for the responses.
milum, your "zone of saturation" response led me to find the term I had been looking for in the first place: "zone of aeration."
This is actually fascinating.
1. The top of the "zone of saturation" is the water table. Check. That's easy to understand--how the water table changes height due to varying circumstances.
2. Now immediately above the water table is the "zone of aeration" which is itself divided into three layers:
a. Belt of soil moisture (uppermost)
b. Intermediate belt
c. Capillary fringe (and get this fascinating detail about the capillary fringe: "Belt above zone of saturation in which underground water is lifted against gravity by surface tension in passages of capillary size (i.e., .0025 to .25 cm in diameter)"--and that's really small!
So now I know that the zone of aeration is above the water table with the capillary fringe being directly against the water table. I don't know whether this is always true of the relationship between the capillary fringe and the water table. If the water table drops many feet for some reason, I don't know whether the capillary fringe would drop as much.
I also don't know whether the topmost layer of earth--lets say the uppermost level of surface dirt--is part of the "belt of soil moisture" (uppermost level of the zone of aeration), but I think this belt of soil moisture does go all the way to the surface.
Anyway, thanks again for the input.You guys are great! I think I've got it straight now.
By the way, "iversonsoftware.com/geology" is a good link for geological terms.
Best regards,
WW
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#81023
09/18/2002 7:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 475
addict
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addict
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
toilet water!?!?! all water is toilet water, and drinking water and sea water etc and has been many times over, what a bizarre attitude. http://makeashorterlink.com/?L1B2256D1
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#81024
09/18/2002 7:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
Hurrah for the miracle of rain formed by the evaporation of a sea of toilet water.
If only we could distribute it more equably. It rains a couple drops every other
month here. And other people are being flooded.
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#81025
09/20/2002 3:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
Last issue of Smithsonian Magazine has story on Venice and mentions how pumping water from under the city has caused it to sink more in past few years than in the 50 years before. They stopped, needless to say and are now trying to reverse the damage they caused. Magnificent photos with the article.
Mayhap you could find the article at smithsonian.com
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#81026
09/20/2002 3:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
and sometimes, the water table is above the natural ground level-- and you get a wetland.. see what the EPA has to say about them.. i'll continue to look, because there also a page on the path of surface water to the water table..(and wet lands are a sometimes intermediary stop) http://www.epa.gov/OWOW/wetlands/index.htmland here is a ground water primer, from Purdue Unv., showing the water table, capilary fring, etc.. http://www.epa.gov/seahome/groundwater/src/ground.htm(wait, i didn't check, is this the same one Milum posted?)
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#81027
09/20/2002 4:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
of troy,
milum didn't post a link; dxb and dody did, however, and one of yours is fantastic--the one with all the terms and definitions. Thanks for providing it.
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#81028
09/21/2002 12:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872 |
milum didn't post a link
With good reason. I know more about water tables than the smartest of your links. For most of my adult life I've lusted after water tables as W.C. Fields has lusted after Chickadees and Mae West. I eat, sleep, and drink water tables. With good reason; water tables control the development and enlargement of caves. Go ahead, I dare you, ask me a question - No! - better still, I'll tell you stuff without you even asking...
In a minute...
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#81029
09/21/2002 2:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
OK, Master of Water Tables. Here's a question for you with, first, some background.
Let's take a very well-established water table just beneath the beating heart of the capillary level in the zone of aeration. Now something happens to cause that water table to drop--let's say bodies of water that fed the water table have been dammed up so that the lower areas no longer receive the feeding of water they once enjoyed. So the water tables below the dam drop. And they drop a lot.
What happens to that capillary level that was once kissing its sweet lips against the water table? Do the capillaries dry up? And what about the area of soil that is now between the now lonely capillaries and the dropped water table? What is this newly created area called?
That's what I'd like to know.
Singing the lament for deserted capillaries,
WordWaterTable
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#81030
09/21/2002 2:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear WW: In addition to industries lowering water tables, enormous areas are being
covered with asphalt and cement to make shopping plazas, so rain water just runs off,
instead of helping raise water table.
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#81031
09/21/2002 2:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 6,296 |
Yes, wwh. Many things can adversely affect the geology of an area when man steps in and builds what he will.
Take China for instance and the huge dam that's being built.
I read in a book recently that when dams are put it, the weight of the water in the dam, if large enough, can cause earthquakes. No joke. Within the tectonic plate itself, the weight of that extra water can cause a quake. I would think China would be most especially susceptible to earthquakes--and this huge dam with its enormous amount of extra water weight could cause one of these quakes. Not to even mention what such a dam will do to the water tables there.
There's a specific term for earthquakes that occur within the tectonic plate--but I've forgotten the term. Inter-tectonic quake...or something like that. Maybe someone here knows the term.
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#81032
09/21/2002 3:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247 |
If only we could distribute it more equably
If one distributes water "equably", wwh, it is likely that it will also be distributed "equitably". And that would be an "aquable" result, wouldn't you say?
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#81033
09/21/2002 4:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear wordminstrel: a bow to you for calling attention to fact that my word choice
was not the best. Equitably would mean fairly, justly - which would be important.
I was thinking more of the cases where some communities get far more than they
need because of geography.
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#81034
09/21/2002 5:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247 |
I was thinking more of the cases where some communities get far more than they
need because of geography
I would not presume to "call attention" to your usage, wwh, particularly having regard to the fact that your usage was perfectly precise. I was simply reflecting on the fact that water which is not distributed equably in populated regions has a meaning to those suffering a deficit which is not immediately obvious to those enjoying a surplus.
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#81035
09/21/2002 5:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Wordminstrel, do, I beg of you, call attention to any of my word choices that
could be improved on. That is what AWADtalk was created for. Until your post I
had forgotten the more usual complaint about water, its inequitable consumption
by some cities, resulting in deprivation of other less politically powerful communities.
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#81036
09/21/2002 7:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
I dare you, ask me a question
OK, Mr. Answer Man. In the movie My Little Chickadee, starring W. C. Fields and Mae West, who was whose little chickadee?
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#81037
09/22/2002 12:29 AM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
So, we go from riparian rights to My Little Chickadee. What is this? Fields and Streams?
TEd
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#81038
09/22/2002 12:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
In reply to:
So, we go from riparian rights to My Little Chickadee. What is this? Fields and Streams?
Aw, come on, Ted! Why don't you ask A.L.I.C.E. again? She kind of liked you, if I remember correctly.
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#81039
09/22/2002 12:42 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872 |
Darn pesky aluminum siding salesman, sorry I'm late but that guy wouldn't shut up talking. Let's see, where was I before I was so rudely interrupted?... ...oh yeah it seems that Pal Fal has asked a tangent while I was gone, Ok Mr. Faldage the answer is - W.C. Fields called Mae West "My Little Chickadee" not once but twice, when they were on the train headed west to be married. Have you forgotten? Ok, now I can return to explaining the many interesting aspects of Water Tables to Wordwind. You know...sometimes fate intervenes, the aluminum siding salesman (whose name was Van) gave me a hint as to how to explain complicated earth science processes to females. Van said... "Women think in little packages, I understand nothing about the way their minds work. They put every subject into an envelope, label it and it's finished...little packages...little packages."Actually Van was quoting the 19th century painter Edgar Degas, but it gave me an idea as to how to format my Water Table talk to insure an effective transfer of information. I will go now and write it up and return posthaste.
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#81040
09/22/2002 12:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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While milum's gone, I'll stick in a word. In early colonial times in Massachusetts a number
of places had enough iron in soil that it leached out into many ponds and bogs, and was
used by coloniists to make cast iron pots, etc. The soluble iron when it got into pond
became insoluble, and made a layer on bottom of pond that got thick enough in twenty
years to be dug out again. But imagine work of digging a ton of that goo and gunk in
a day's work, and then having to transport it over a footpath to nearest forge, perhaps
ten miles away. Instead of cash you got a pot or two, and so then had to hoof many
miles to find someone who could barter you something for it. A rough way to make a
living. Every brook just about had a forge on it, to work bellows to make forge hot
enough to burn wood charcoal to reduce iron to a spidery "bloom" which could then
be removed, and when enough was obtained, be remelted to make the pots, etc.
Incidentally, high water table in all those bog areas is now basis for cranberry bogs,
which I understand are now Massachusetts largest agricultural enterprise.
Buy OCEAN SPRAY cranberry juice. End of commercial.
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#81041
09/22/2002 1:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 6,296 |
Yeah, wwh. Cranberries and their bogs are really fascinating.
But back to iron. I've been wondering. You see, out here on the farm the land is mostly red clay. And just today I was wondering what made the clay red. Do you think it's iron? I mean, iron turns red, doesn't it? So that's why I'm wondering whether there may be high iron content in the soil. When the rain works away at the clay, and the runoff moves into the dirt road, it turns into reddish-yellowish-orangish sand. But I'll bet there's high iron content in that clay.
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#81042
09/22/2002 1:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear WW: I told you a long time ago I lived three years in Herndon, a mile east of control
tower at Dulles. The soil there was red clay. The red is indeed from iron, but in tightly
bonded enough not to be in excess. But red clay is commendably fertile. Only probblem
is narrow window of ploughing schedule. The Massachusetts soil is orange and yellow
sand and doesn't hold nutrients at all well. Colonial farms played out very quickly, and
farmers had to find new land elsewhere. I read about a farm of fifteen acres arable,
and fifteen of woodland. But half the value of farm was in three acres of salt meadow,
where sea replenished nutrients removed with hay. When I hear nuts talking about
wonders of organic farming, I'd like to have them compelled to make it work on such
a farm. Even rapacious Lord Faldage with his sheep byproducts extorted from his pathetic
peasants would have a tough time with soil llike that.
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#81043
09/22/2002 10:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
W.C. Fields called Mae West "My Little Chickadee" not once but twice
Dang you, milum! Now I gots to watch the flick instead o jus lissenin to other folks talkin about it.
Oh, and Dr. Bill? Could you move your sheep over to the north 40? I need some more ammo.
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#81044
09/22/2002 11:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460 |
Hi Faldage:
If you'll be in southern latitudes on 5 November 2003, come and see it with Hobart Film Society in a double-bill with the Marx Brothers in 'Horse feathers'.
And other AWADers are also welcome!
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#81045
09/22/2002 11:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460 |
Hi Faldage:
If you'll be in southern latitudes on 5 November 2003, come and see it with Hobart Film Society members in a double-bill with the Marx Brothers in 'Horse feathers'.
And other AWADers are also welcome!
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#81046
09/22/2002 1:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872 |
O' but it does pain me so to say this but as I was putting all the information that I know about Water Tables into "Little Packets" I suddenly realized that all I was doing was defining terms that are used in the lexicon of groundwater movement. In other words, if you know the nomenclature you know the process. So except for certain esoteric applications, my great paper on the subject could be better explained by the glossaries already provided by of troy and wordwind in several URLs in this thread. I now walk away, head in hand, much ashamed. Vowing never again to boast of my monopoly of all human knowledge on this illustrious board. And Faldage, dear Faldage, it pains me even more to admit that I made up that stuff about what Mae West said to W.C. Fields when they were on the train. - 
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#81047
09/22/2002 3:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
In reply to:
I now walk away, head in hand, much ashamed. Vowing never again to boast of my monopoly of all human knowledge on this illustrious board.
Aw, milum, don't hang your big ol' haid in shame. There's no way in anybody's way of reckoning that your packets would be the same as those on the internet. Consuelo would be first to agree with me. In fact, were you to publish anonymously your own water table packet lexicon on the internet, Consuelo would be able to discern your presence there and she would be quickly followed by the rest of us, not to mention the fact that somewhere among your packets you would have identified yourself anyway.
Here's another question:
Is it possible to have a stream or lake between two inclines of which the water in said stream or lake is above the water table? I know this is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure the answer to the question is "No." But if the answer were "yes," then it wouldn't be a dumb question anymore. So either I already know the answer to a dumb question, or I've posed a good question to which my answer is wrong, but new knowledge of the "yes" would be intriguing. I see this as a win-win situation, even if my question's dumb.
Best regards,
WW
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#81048
09/22/2002 3:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
I can remember when this was not just a nonsequitur, but a euphemism, when "horse____"
would have incurred corporal punishment.
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#81049
09/22/2002 3:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
A nonsequitur? Not if you're talking Pegasus! 
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#81050
09/22/2002 3:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear WW: you'd have to admit Pegasus would have been hard to follow.
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#81051
09/22/2002 7:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
rtesian well
Fr art=sien, lit., of ARTOIS (OFr Arteis), where such wells were bored6 a well drilled deep enough to reach water that is draining down from higher surrounding ground above the well so that the pressure will force a flow of water upward
I did not know this. I thought it came from "artisan" a skilled workman
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