#75373
07/13/2002 4:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 5,400 |
Hey, i have done a lot of riske things and even some kinky things.. but - I've refrained from YARTing consuelo and ofTroy --Yarting? in a three some? in public? Musick, you keep your string picking, ivory tickling, hands off me!
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#75374
07/13/2002 5:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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What's next? A discussion on the relative value of the music of Allan Holdsworth?I dunno...do his relatives value his music? 
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#75375
07/14/2002 12:23 AM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 15
stranger
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stranger
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I have always been told that my sense of perfect pitch is "relative", in that I can recognize any note that is played (without being given a base point of reference), as opposed to "absolute", which I thought pertained to knowing the difference between, say, A440 and A442.
I've always been surprised by the fact that my perfect pitch comes much more naturally when I'm listening to an instrument that I can play. I have trouble with, for example, violin (which I can't play worth a darn). My perfect pitch seems to be a bit of a two-step process; first my fingers mentally fall into the keying of the note, and then I read my figurative fingers. Am I alone in this?
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#75376
07/15/2002 4:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Early on in the US involvement in World War II some bright young radio-telegrapher noticed that the opening of the 5th (Da da da daaah) mimics the dot-dot-dot-dash in Morse code for the letter V.
The music instantly shot to the Top of the Charts for one and all because of the association with the slogan "V for Victory."
MAny a person age 65 or older - who knows nothing whatsoever about classical music will recognize Beethoven's Fifth Symphony because of the association
(A person now in 60s would have been old enough in 1941 - when war started for USA - to remember the many playings of the Fifth Symphony. I recall the Fifth played on every radio station many times on both VE Day and VJ DAy. )
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#75377
07/15/2002 5:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387 |
I read somewhere that they played the 5th on BBC before announcing that Churchill had died.
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#75378
07/15/2002 8:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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veteran
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Posts: 1,346 |
A person now in 60s would have been old enough in 1941 - when war started for USA - to remember the many playings of the Fifth SymphonyAh, that explains the outstanding popularity of the 5th, Wise One, I mean in terms of general popularity. It is such an instantly recognizable beginning to everyone, although go a little bit further into the piece and the recognition will be significantly more rare, I think 
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#75379
07/15/2002 9:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 273
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 273 |
In reply to:
Ah, that explains the outstanding popularity of the 5th, Wise One, I mean in terms of general popularity. It is such an instantly recognizable beginning to everyone, although go a little bit further into the piece and the recognition will be significantly more rare, I think
A humorist once wrote that Beethoven should have admitted his mistake and deleted the movements following the first, since everybody knows it stops there.
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#75380
07/16/2002 11:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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a little bit further into the piece and the recognition will be significantly more rare, I think
Not for us Oldsters, Fishona, we listened to all of it, thinking of our men overseas, wondering if, and when we would see them again. Remembering the good times and hoping for a future.
Ah, wistfully staring into space.....
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#75381
07/17/2002 3:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
going waaaay back.... The 5th feeds me immediately right where I am in thought and emotion. Hamlet requires that I must concentrate. The 5th requires varying degrees of concentration from me...
WW, I think (sorry to drag things back to this debate!) that that is primarily what Margaret Kennedy meant, when she said, in Lucy Carmichael, that music is the least educative of the arts. She might also have said (but she didn't) that it is the most emotive.
Bollocks. I may never be able to adequately convey what I understood Kennedy to be saying, when she wrote that. All I know is, it made sense to me. If you take a bunch of people who are equally unfamiliar with all the arts, and shove 'em together in a room and have them sit through both the 5th and good ol' Spamlet, I think they would get more food for thought from Spamlet (the educative element) - though they might well be more moved by the 5th (the emotive element).
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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#75382
07/17/2002 8:23 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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"All I know is, it made sense to me. If you take a bunch of people who are equally unfamiliar with all the arts, and shove 'em together in a room and have them sit through both the 5th and good ol' Spamlet, I think they would get more food for thought from Spamlet (the educative element)
And I disagree with you, MG, more than you can imagine. [Hey! We're friends here and we can agree to disagree!]
But this time I won't write another of those too-long reflections that few probably read here and Musick would only tear it to pieces, anyway--Hi, Musick!
But I will go on record saying that I strongly disagree with your point of view! You, MG, might have more food for thought about Hamlet. However, you might be surprised at the number in that same room who would testify to having at least an equal appetitue for the food for thought the one and only Mr. B had provided.
I think something that is a bit awkward here is I don't like these kinds of seeming contests and measures of worth. What's gotten me all along in this whole discussion is the casual put-down Kennedy made of music. And I know she is entirely incorrect in this view in the part of the novel you refer to here--and thanks for telling us about it! Her view really hit a nerve. Seems very much out-of-touch with the world of music and music lovers. Uh, oh....I'm started to get long-winded again. Let me escape now.
Beethoven regards, [and that's with a hug to you, MG!]
WW
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#75383
07/17/2002 10:30 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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veteran
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seeming contests and measures of worth. What's gotten me all along in this whole discussion is the casual put-down Kennedy made of music
Yes, I have to agree that's the way it sounds WW, though I don't know the full context (which is always dodgy). But certainly going by words, "educative" implies "able to educate" - and music, as an aspect of life, (hopefully) educates us both emotionally and intellectually. We can learn to feel, and we can learn how to deal with feelings.
At the end of the day, though, this is yet another of those meaningless distinctions, like "head/heart", "mind/body", "nature/nurture", "matter/spirit" etc. We all know that the world doesn't really fall into two neat halves, and we all know that these so-called oppositions are really just extremes on the same continuum. But this is an area where words play tricks on us, emphasising separation rather than connectedness.
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#75384
07/17/2002 10:34 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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veteran
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>>a little bit further into the piece and the recognition will be significantly more rare, I think
Not for us Oldsters, FishonaAccepted, Wise One - I did mean in terms of the general public, including the ever-increasing (   ) number of youngsters.
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#75385
07/17/2002 11:22 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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I agree completely with you, Fish, if not with Ms. Kennedy. I don't know the full context either since I've never read the work, but hope to find it in the state library next week. MG told me it's out of print. But I'm really curious about Kennedy's context. I'll report back in a few weeks. If she's anything like she was in this one example, watch out. Don't be around me while I read her. I may be spitting nails--in time to the first movement of the 5th.
If anybody here needs a good dose of the idea we call "victory," listen to the last movement.
Beethoven regards,
WW
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#75386
07/17/2002 11:30 AM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679 |
I don't know the full context either since I've never read
the work, but hope to find it in the state library next week. MG told me it's out of print.
I just checked the library database. It was first published by MacMillan in 1951 and the last print was in 1972. The database prefix denotes that the book is irreplaceable from source (out of print) so ye cannae get it from the shops.
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#75387
07/17/2002 7:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
Madama Kennedy was writing about one of her characters when she penned that throwaway line that has my darling friend (I loves ya, ya know I does! ) WW up in arms....Dubdub, I suspect you will enjoy the book in its entirety, despite disagreeing with that sentiment. Kennedy was referring to an immature character who is very self-absorbed. However, she has other characters who are more involved in other arts who are also self-absorbed - but in different ways. And she has much praise for music in other contexts within the novel. Think the point she was trying to make was that though Rickie loved music and could make wonderful music himself, he wasn't terribly quick to pick up on "real-world" things. So now I know you are going to argue that that could be character-specific, not music-general, and I would agree with you....! And you're right, there's not much point to arguing this anyway. As Oscar said (it was Oscar, wasn't it, and not Lear or Coward or some other clever epigrammaticist?!), "Comparisons are odious." So I'se sorry I brought it up! but 'twas an interesting debate for a little while there (I read every word, WW!), yes? Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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#75388
07/17/2002 7:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Modestgoddess, I'm argumentative on certain topics. I've enjoyed writing so many paragraphs here that not too many would be interested in reading anyhow. But it's kind of fun to have an imaginary audience of--ha!--over 3,000 readers! And, besides, sometimes you really don't understand what you believe and can move on to new thoughts till you've put those beliefs into words or actions. I am going to read Ms. Kennedy's book if the state library has it. Promise. And after that, I'm going to hear a symphony orchestra play, and write a volume or two about what I learned!  Just kidding! But if you want to go hear the fifth with me sometime, let's find an orchestra between your place and mine. I'll talk your MG (most gracious) ear off about it afterwards! Beethoven regards, WW
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#75389
07/17/2002 7:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
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old hand
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Posts: 833 |
WW, you got yo'sef a deal! I'll buy the popcorn.  Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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#75390
07/17/2002 9:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872 |
Fidel Castro: Aw forget it Dubba, let's find an orchestra between your place and mine. I'll talk your MG (most gracious) ear off about it afterwards! President Bush: Well ok, you silly communist goose , you got yo'sef a deal! I'll buy the popcorn.
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#75391
07/17/2002 9:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Well, Milo, if'n yer gonna do dat, you shoulda changed the title! --------- "...But this is an area where words play tricks on us, emphasising separation rather than connectedness."I like it! I seems like the definition of definition. ...and Musick would only tear it to pieces, anyway--Hi, Musick!Hi, WW. Now you know what I meant by "tighten your skin". Aw, go-on ahead and ruffle some feathers...
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#75392
07/17/2002 10:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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veteran
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Posts: 1,346 |
"...But this is an area where words play tricks on us, emphasising separation rather than connectedness."
I like it! I seems like the definition of definition. It is, isn't it? Umm, but by the same token it isn't 
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#75393
07/18/2002 7:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Many years ago my old man, Papa Rem, was the publicity director for the Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra, and was good friends with Eugene Ormandy and his successor Dmitri Metropolous (I think that's how you spell his name). He also knew many of the players, including a bass player who told him this story.
After the first movement, the bass players sit and stare at their instruments until the finale of the Beethoven's Fifth. So Harold and the other two bass players decided one night to slip out for a drink during this extended hiatus. One drink led to another to another, etc., until the second chair began to get worried. "We've gotta be back in time for the finale," he warned his two companions.
"Not to worry, I've got it down to the second. And even if we are a bit late I tied up Ormandy's sheet music with a piece of tough twine. By the time he gets it untangled we'll be back in our seats ready to play."
Yep, you guessed it. It was the end of the fifth, the bases were loaded, and the score was tied.
TEd
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#75394
07/18/2002 11:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
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Ted, you are just too adorable! If I could memorize a single one of your stories, this would be the one. And the first person I'd tell it to would be Modgod after we'd listened to the fifth with our tubs of buttered popcorn.
Whatever you do, please never stop being you!
Big kiss,
Wordwind
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#75395
07/19/2002 1:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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That's the annoying part: everyone is jealous of us and, when they write music, like to spite us by making us stand there doing nothing the whole time.
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#75396
07/20/2002 2:45 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Ah, jim, jealousy is just another form of admiration.
Bassk in the glow of it!
WW
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