#73722
06/20/2002 10:38 AM
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My grandma used to make 'em homemade in the evenings and we'd watch Mission Impossible together while tossing 'em down. My grandpa's favorite doughnut as the KK cruller - a week old cruller was better than the freshest anything else.
We move to northern va and there's no Krispy Kreme, so I go to the local places and the Dunkin Donuts. They're not as good, really. Not what I would call a doughnut. But in the last few years I discovered one hidden away and I've also seen 'em in the local grocery. I recently introduced a friend to KKs. He says they shouldn't even call 'em doughnuts - but something much better. (Well, we argue about everthing else - why not this?)
I've never quite understood why doughnut holes are not called dough balls or something like that. I've never understood why a doughnut was called a doughnut, because it doesn't look very nuggetty. But I had a fleeting insight into the obvious yesterday and it occurred to me that it was doughnut as opposed to doughbolt. No idea of the etymology, but this seems plausible.
k
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#73723
07/22/2002 1:49 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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FF, none of my usual sources discussed the etymology of "doughnut", except to observe that it is a combination of DOUGH + NUT. According to the Word Detective, doughnuts were originally made without the holes, so the simple explanation seems to be that they were nutshaped and made of dough, hence, dough nuts. http://www.word-detective.com/back-j2.html#doughnutOne other possibility: one of my etymological dictionaries discusses the use of "nut" as a color; dough nuts are usually nut brown, so that might have re-enforced the association between nuts and the fried dough. And for the non-cooks in the crowd: the holes are put in doughnuts to make them cook evenly. A large doughnut will not be cooked in the middle if not punctured with the hole. The shape of a cooked hole is basically the shape of doughnuts as originally made.
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#73724
07/22/2002 1:52 PM
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old hand
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> A large doughnut will not be cooked in the middle if not punctured with the hole.
But if it has jam in the middle of it......
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#73725
07/22/2002 2:46 PM
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But if it has jam in the middle of it......Absolutely, Belligerent One! I never knew anything but jam doughnuts (i.e. dough balls with raspberry jam in the middle) until I went on holiday to Canada around 1975. "Ring" doughnuts didn't get to the UK until about 10 years after that, as far as I'm aware. Accepted that my awareness can lack something sometimes  Curious, isn't it?
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#73726
07/22/2002 2:51 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear BY: Surely you don't think the jam is in before the doughnuts are cooked? I'm quite
sure it is injected after they have been cooked. Like cream in a cram puff.
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#73727
07/22/2002 3:44 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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around 1975. "Ring" doughnuts didn't get to the UK until about 10 years after that...
erm, hate to tell you this my fishy friend, but I ate ring doughnuts from around 1967/8 in Maidstone, Kent - and not mere cardboard specials, but split open laterally and filled with fresh cream in addition to jam... [/dribble] :)
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#73728
07/22/2002 4:05 PM
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old hand
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Dr Bill > I'm quite sure it is injected after they have been cooked. Like cream in a cram puff. (EA) That gives me some interesting imagery. I just couldn't pass it up. 
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#73729
07/22/2002 4:16 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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i think i have read that the nut of donuts is from knot or knob, as in a dough knot.. and yes, the hole in the doughnut is to make it cook more evenly..
it's is less of problem with raised (yeast based dough) donuts -- and jelly filled ones are almost always of this kind, but more of problem with "cake-like" or soda leavened dough nuts -- these tend to be heavier, and can be leaden..
the very opposite of KK's (Krispy Creme's for non-USers-- a brand of very light, raised donuts)
FF, didn't some of this come up when we discussed Tim Hortons? have you searched for Hortons? or Tim bits? i think it was in a sports thread of all places, and it wasn't me who brought it round to food!
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#73730
07/22/2002 4:25 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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it wasn't me who brought it round to food!
uh~huh?
:)
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#73731
07/22/2002 4:39 PM
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FF, didn't some of this come up when we discussed Tim Hortons?
I don't remember discussing Tim Horton's. Interesting - dough *knots*.
k
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#73732
07/22/2002 5:14 PM
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For me, it was quite the other way around. I never knew that there existed doughnuts without holes until I went to the UK a few years ago. And cream or jam fillings were unheard of! But I ascribed this culinary quirk to the well-known British dottiness (doughtiness?? nuttiness??). Now I see that it all goes much much deeper... :-)
FWIW, as far as Spanish people are concerned, if it ain't got a hole, it ain't a "donut"! A bun, maybe...
Marianna
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#73733
07/22/2002 8:15 PM
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old hand
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>A large doughnut will not be cooked in the middle if not punctured with the hole.
Curious. Doughnuts are a specialty of Rarotongan cooking, and no matter how large they get, they always seem to be cooked just fine without a hole in them. A meal of roast goat folllowed by some Raro doughnuts - oh to be in Oceania!
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#73734
07/22/2002 8:22 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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around 1975. "Ring" doughnuts didn't get to the UK until about 10 years after that...
erm, hate to tell you this my fishy friend, but I ate ring doughnuts from around 1967/8 in Maidstone, Kent -
... and I remember serving them (and eating them!) in my Dad's transport café in the late 1950s.
They were certainly commonplace in London by then - and I think they were popularised by American Servicemen either during or just after the 2nd World War.
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#73735
07/22/2002 8:26 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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And we mustn't forget how popular donuts were made by that greta song, (from the late '40s, I think) "Do nut forsake me, Oh my Darling ..." [on second thoughts - maybe we should forget it . . . ]
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#73736
07/22/2002 9:55 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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The spice in a doughnut dough is nutmeg. Arrrrgh! Now I want one!
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#73737
07/22/2002 10:08 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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From a site about history of doughnuts, it is pointed out that doughnuts began with small batches of dough left over from making bread. The Pilgrims learned this is Holland, and brought the idea with them to Massachusetts. In 1847, a boy asked his mother to make rings, because he didn't like soggy centers. So, the ring doughnut was born. At first doughnuts were yeast raised, and cooked in hot fat. When fat became a dirty word, the cake doughnut was developed, the raising achieved with baking powder. Or both baking powder and yeast, as in Martha Stewart recipe. If you take one look at the recipe, you are almost certain to forget making your own. It's a lot of work. The one thing I couldn't find out is how commercial donuts have so little oil on them. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M35F14351 Wait a few seconds for it to work.
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#73738
07/22/2002 10:39 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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The one thing I couldn't find out is how commercial donuts have so little oil on them.
it has to do with the chemistry of frying.. the best (read least greasy/oily/fatiest) fried food are fried twice..
frying is a form of dry heat.. (just like baking) food should go into very hot fat to sear (seal the surface) then the temperture should be lowered to allow the food to cook with out burning..the searing heat of the first cooking seal the surface, and prevents oil from permeating the dough.
so first submerge the doughnuts in very hot oil (something the best doughnut resist, because they are air filled.) then remove and cook again in hot oil till they are done...
duel cooking -- is one of the sciences of cooking...
but KK's are especialy good because they are a very light yeast raised dough.
second note
The Pilgrims learned this is Holland, where they were living and learning skills. most were barred from membership in english guilds. the Mayflower brought over Master Knitter, and Master Weavers, and other Masters at guilded crafts. (i am interested in textiles, so i know these for sure.. it took six years of training to become a master knitter.) They did not bring gold smiths, because they said no need, but did bring silver smiths. all these masters had mastered their crafts in Holland, a country with more religious tolerence than england (especially to foriegners who were not planning on staying beyond there training.)
in the early 1650's there were informal agreements between New Amsterdam and the New england colonies, against the french and indians. Since the french were more interested in trading with the indians, and not in settling land, they often had better relationships. Connecticut's tail that juts into NY is an artifact of this.. the snip of land from stanford to greenwich was originaly part of NY, and traded to Connecticut as part of joint defence treaty.
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#73739
07/23/2002 1:18 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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More on the etymology ...
From Take Our Word for It:
The earliest occurrence of the word is in the work of Washington Irving (1809). He had to define the word, so we can assume that it was not a widely known dish at the time, at least to his audience. And, interestingly, he defines doughnuts as "balls of sweetened dough, fried in hog's fat". This suggests that doughnuts were not named after knots or nuts and bolts, but instead after nuts like walnuts or pecans. They were balls of dough that, when fried to a deep golden brown, resembled nuts. Doughnuts only took their torus shape to overcome a problem inherent in balls of dough - uncooked centers. Removing the centers ensured that the doughnuts would be cooked throughout.
Similarly, from The Origin of Things:
Now for the origin of the word. In the early 1600s, the Pilgrims learned how to make olykoeks and gave them a new name...doughnuts. The new name came about because the little balls of dough looked like walnuts.
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#73740
07/23/2002 2:22 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Everyone's discussing the why's and wherefore's of the large hole in the center of the doughnut...but did you ever pause to ponder the small hole in the side of a jelly or creme donut, and how it got there? Well I'll tell ya.... Having suffered a short tenure of a few month's employ at a South Jersey Dunkin' Donuts way back when, I learned a thing or too about the doughnut making process...for all the good it would do me later in life! Anyway, when the jelly donuts come down the line, you grab one in each hand, and there's a machine with two metal prongs extending from it...so you insert a prong into each donut and the jelly is squirted inside!  Make of it what you will!  and I know you will!
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#73741
07/23/2002 1:20 PM
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And we mustn't forget how popular donuts were made by that greta song, (from the late '40s, I think)
"Do nut forsake me, Oh my Darling ..."
And don't forget that classic line from Raising Arizona: "You want to find your kid? Call me. You want to find a doughnut? Call a cop."
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#73742
07/23/2002 2:03 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I wouldn't call the polliss anything that I could write down here!!
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#73743
07/23/2002 4:18 PM
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Posts: 387
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Having suffered a short tenure of a few month's employ at a South Jersey Dunkin' Donuts way back when, I learned a thing or too about the doughnut making process...for all the good it would do me later in life! Anyway, when the jelly donuts come down the line, you grab one in each hand, and there's a machine with two metal prongs extending from it...so you insert a prong into each donut and the jelly is squirted inside! Make of it what you will! and I know you will!
Well, considering that a bit of cream is always poking out of that hole...
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#73744
07/23/2002 4:45 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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And we mustn't forget how popular donuts were made by that greta song, (from the
late '40s, I think)
"Do nut forsake me, Oh my Darling ..."
Rhuby thus documents La Garbo's first and only appearance in a Western, playing a sidewalk pastry vendor with a heart of gold.
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#73745
07/23/2002 4:53 PM
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old hand
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Mmmm, what a great thread to return to after an absence!
I had a bunch of things to add, most of which I've forgotten.
1. What USns call jelly doughnuts I called a jam-buster. (In general I never use the word jelly, because my mother continually pointed out we rarely eat jelly, but often eat jam. Therefore my sandwiches are peanut butter and jam sandwiches. But I digress.) They don't seem to know the word jam-buster in Newfoundland so I often have trouble ordering one at Tim Horton's, I just don't know what the heck they're called here!
small batches of dough left over from making bread
2. A great Newfoundland word along the lines of the original concept of doughnut is touton, deep-fried bits of bread dough, usually eaten with butter and molasses. (Touton rhymes with floutin', not crouton, with a "Canadian-raised" ou sound.)
3. In the west, we were served similar things known as (a) elephant ears, or (b) beaver tails, and eaten with jam, icing sugar, syrup.... These were flatter and crispier than doughnuts but are definitely from the same genus.
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#73746
07/23/2002 6:17 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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How many AWAdtalkers know what "spider cake" refers to?
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#73747
07/24/2002 11:41 AM
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Rhu -- I've just got back from screening 'High noon' to a very appreciative audience. It was made in 1952 and even after 50 years it still packs a punch! The song 'Do not forsake me …' which was used throughout the film won the Oscar for Best Song (written by Dimitri Tiomkin and Ned Washington; sung by Tex Ritter).
And was that Garbo or Gynt you had in mind ['that greta song']?
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#73748
07/24/2002 12:10 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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In reply to:
And was that Garbo or Gynt you had in mind ['that greta song']?
Actually, it was a typo for Garter - I was thinking of Polly, from Under Milk Wood
 
(and thaks for the provenance data, which I didn't know - certainly hadn't realised it was sung by Tex Ritter)
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#73749
07/24/2002 12:19 PM
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[tomgue]Ah, a new word coined! And just exactly how do you pronounce it, Rube?
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#73750
07/24/2002 12:41 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Rhuby, You'll note I *also made the Garbo connection farther up. That's OK, I'm used to it.
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#73751
07/24/2002 12:46 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Rubrick, obviously Rhuby's tomgue was occupied seeking cream in a hole...  FF, as you probably know, I can drive a couple of miles and watch Krispy Kremes being made; row after row of them, sliding warm and steaming off the conveyor belt... maverick, my drool has joined your [/dribble] :).
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#73752
07/24/2002 12:50 PM
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obviously Rhuby's tomgue was occupied seeking cream in a hole...
Ooooerrr..... I think this belongs over on the double entendre thread in Today's word of the day
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#73753
07/24/2002 2:12 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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#73754
07/24/2002 2:48 PM
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Bean says: we were served similar things known as (a) elephant ears, or (b) beaver tails
I know an elephant ear as a baked rather than a fried goodie. It's roughly heart-shaped, kind of like the shape of two elephant ears laid against each other (guess they'd have to be severed from the elephant's head, but let's just skim over that part) and glazed with a bit of sugar syrup. I've heard them called palmiers as well, but I think that's a slightly different shape of the same thing.
I wonder if the elephant ear Bean refers to is what I call fried dough, and what my Midwest-raised sweetheart calls a funnel cake - a flat piece of dough fried in hot oil and sprinkled with powdered/confectioner's/10x sugar and cinnamon. (could this be Bill's spider cake as well?)
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#73755
07/24/2002 2:59 PM
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How many AWAdtalkers know what "spider cake" refers to?
Is it merchandise to accompany a recent movie blockbuster?
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's a spider cake. Eat it and you too can experience spidey's powers.
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#73756
07/24/2002 3:14 PM
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FF, as you probably know, I can drive a couple of miles and watch Krispy Kremes being made; row after row of them, sliding warm and steaming off the conveyor belt...
I could watch (and have watched) for hours on end, cup after cup, byte after byte.
k
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#73757
07/24/2002 4:18 PM
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old hand
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old hand
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fried dough
Your description sounds right, Hyla. So now we have
elephant ears (farmers of German descent in Saskatchewan) = beaver tails (Manitoba) = fried dough (self-descriptive) = funnel cake (US Midwest)
The toutons to which I referred are much less flat, more like a donut in size, but not so puffy. Crunchier and denser than a donut.
Serendipitously, I was reading a 25-year-old book about Canadian English today at lunch, and in discussing words peculiar to Lunenburg, Nova Scotia, they mention fosnoh, fosnut, fassnack, from Fast nacht "fast night" or "night of fasting" as a word for donut. BUT, they add that the German vocabulary features which include this word are also found in German-settled areas of the US, esp. Pennsylvania, and parts of western Ontario.
Anyone here know/use any of those three words for donut, and if so - where are you from?
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#73758
07/24/2002 4:25 PM
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All this torus-related discussion brings to mind a couple of things:
While on a work trip to Dallas some years ago, I came across a diner that served something called a "spudnut" - a donut made from potato flour, rather than wheat. They declared it to be much lighter and tastier than a typical donut - but it seemed like just a donut to me.
Topologically, we're all donuts.
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#73759
07/24/2002 4:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
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stranger
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stranger
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Topologically, we're all donuts.
Huh?? This begs further discussion.
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#73760
07/24/2002 7:53 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I got that one, Hyla, verlanden, if you took donut, made say of clay, and in the center hole, inserted a curved, shaped straw (something the silly drinking straw they have for children,) then squished the clay aound the straw, and shaped it like a mannikin.. from a mathematical point of view, you would still have a donut, or torus. if you could gently remove the straw, with out damaging the mannikin shape, it would be even more donut like.. even though, you could no longer see through the hole, as you can on a donut..
and aren't humans really shapeded like that? don't we really have an opening, that starts in our mouth, and ends and the other end of our body? Our arms and legs, simple bumbs from the outer ring.. and the inner ring? the alimentary canal from one end to the other-- a bit bent and twisted, like the straw, but really a hollow tube that runs through the middle. So topologically, we are all donuts..
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#73761
07/24/2002 8:40 PM
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Perzackly, dearest Helen.
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