#71915
05/31/2002 12:40 PM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1
stranger
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stranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1 |
I have read recently that the words "heal" and "holy," as well as the word "whole," are all derived from the same base word (Latin? Greek?). Can anyone confirm that for me and give me more information? I haven't been able to find derivations in the dictionaries I have looked at.
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#71916
05/31/2002 1:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
English Heal, whole, holy, hail: All from the same IE root; all from Old English except hail which is from Old Norse. http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE198.html
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#71917
05/31/2002 6:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688 |
Welcome aBoard Blawren! 
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#71918
05/31/2002 6:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
all from Old English except hail which is from Old Norse.
Given that the Vikings not only invaded the Mother Country but, in many instances, settled on British soil, it is no surprise to find cross-over words between Old English and Old Norse.
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#71919
05/31/2002 6:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
cross-over words between Old English and Old Norse
According to one expert, whose last name is Shippey and who was featured in Episode two of the PBS series, The Story of English, there were not only cross-over words but the wholesale dumping of case ending in nouns was a result of the mixing of Old English and Old Norse. Common roots with drastically different case endings resulted in the form of the language we have today.
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#71920
05/31/2002 7:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
Shippey is quite right, even more so when one looks at the dialects spoken in Lincolnshire, Yokshire and along the Northumbrian coast. For fun (a bit of which this board could use right now), look at the number of villages in these counties were the town's name ends in either -ton or -by. "Tun" was the Old Norse word for village and "By" the Old Norse word for town. Those fellows not only raped, sacked and pillaged, but put down roots, as well, both domestic and linguistic.
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#71921
05/31/2002 7:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,803 |
The Story of English went into some depths (for about a ten minute segment) about the various place name markers from English and Norse, even mentioning some town names that were half Norse and half English. Also mentioned a number of words that had come from ON, some peculiar to the local dialects and some common in standard English. It's definitely a series worth checking out. The lovely AnnaS and I have been grabbing episodes from the library as they have been available.
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#71922
05/31/2002 8:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
dialects spoken in Lincolnshire, Yokshire and along the Northumbrian coastSussex (where dxb and I live) was, of course, the "South Saxons" county once upon a time. But there are still quite a few Vikings in these parts - drinking messily from dirty horns, banging on tables, singing raucously late at night and eventually missing the last longboat back  . Although come to think of it, it's suddenly become more quiet now that the World Cup has started. "Tun" was the Old Norse word for village and "By" the Old Norse word for townVery interesting. Thank you. I was wondering how "Brighton" (in Sussex again) fit here, but obviously that's actually a contraction of Brighthelmstone. Lot of co(o)mbes (Saxon "little valleys") around the South Downs. Something to do with all the hills. However Barcombe, where I live, is thought to derive from the Saxon bir + camp, i.e. barley field. Bir was very important to Saxons. Can't think why. Oh, if you're buying, mine's a pint, cheers mate. Hmmm. Just a wee digression from the Thread's starting point there. 
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#71923
06/01/2002 1:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
Bir was very important to Saxons. Can't think why.
Oh, if you're buying, mine's a pint, cheers mate.
Hmmm. Just a wee digression from the Thread's starting point there. Digression? What digression? We started with "holy," which we associate with "spirit," so Bir, which is spirits, flows naturally enough. 
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#71924
06/01/2002 2:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
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Posts: 688 |
You mean we are supposed to go in some kind of order here? NOW you tell me!
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#71925
06/01/2002 3:53 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,788 |
The "order" in which posts seem to progress on this board is very much like the manner in which I seem to accomplish things around the vicarage: Setting out to accomplish Project A, discovering that I need Tool B to do it, going on a search for Tool B which requires me to clean up Mess C, finding Something D, for which I had previously been looking in the midst of Mess C, doing whatever it was that I was going to do with Something D, and then being called to supper without having done the least part of Project A.
It all makes really good sense, if one follows the connections.
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#71926
06/01/2002 4:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
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Oh my! which requires me to clean up Mess C,! A man who cleans up messes!?!?!?!?!? 
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#71927
06/01/2002 2:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
the manner in which I seem to accomplish things ... [details] ... and then being called to supper without having done the least part
Sound familiar. Are you my long-lost twin brother?
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#71928
06/01/2002 9:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
A man who cleans up messes!?!?!?Note: when required  But I know for a fact that it's not just blokes who create a set of messy blind-spots that only become visible (to the individual) when there is absolutely no alternative. Father, you have such a realistic assessment of how things actually work, you would probably make a superb Project Manager.
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#71929
06/01/2002 10:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
Are you my long-lost twin brother?
In that I am too fat, too dumb and too ugly, I pray that you are not!
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#71930
06/01/2002 11:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688 |
And who better to pray for you than the good Father!
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#71931
06/02/2002 2:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 275
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 275 |
The "order" in which posts seem to progress on this board is very much like the manner in which I seem to accomplish things around the vicarage: Setting out to accomplish Project A, discovering that I need Tool B to do it, going on a search for Tool B which requires me to clean up Mess C, finding Something D, for which I had previously been looking in the midst of Mess C, doing whatever it was that I was going to do with Something D, and then being called to supper without having done the least part of Project A.
Father Steve, thanks for perfectly describing what happens when I garden, no wonder my borders and beds are always in a state of "work in progress".
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