#69621
05/12/2002 5:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
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barmecide n., an insincere benefactor; one who holds out illusory offers, or who promised , but does not deliver.
the original Barmecide is to be found in one of the tales of the arabian nights, and his name has become synonymous with deceit, illusion, hypocricy, and at the proffering of bounty, only to with hold the bounty until the proffer's terms are met.
who knew there was this wonderful word to define so foul a character? I mean, i usually use the analogy of the school yard bully, who happens to own a baseball, and hold the whole team hostage to playing by his rules, or he takes away his ball..
we have all come across such characters, the kind who spoil things for everyone, unless they have everything their own way, and who offerings of help and kindness, are so insincere as to be transparent.
well, in the Arabian nights, he got his come uppance! the Caliph had him and his family imprisoned and exectuted them.
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#69622
05/12/2002 6:02 PM
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Here is a URL to text of Arabian Nights tales, including the one about the Barmecide: http://arab2.com/arabian-nights/an24.htm
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#69623
05/12/2002 6:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
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barmecide n., : a murder committed in a barroom.
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#69624
05/12/2002 6:08 PM
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A word I learned early from these stories was "sesame". "Open, sesame!" the magic words that opened the door to the treasure. I still remember that phrase every time I eat a roll with sesame seeds.
In anatomy, there are very small bones that form where tendons cross joints, as in the fingers, to keep joint in alignment when flexed. They are called sesamoids, because they are so small. The kneecaps are large ones.
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#69625
05/12/2002 6:19 PM
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wwh,
So now we can think Open, sesamoid! when we see something covered with sesame seeds!
Bent knee regards,
WW
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#69626
05/12/2002 6:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
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In reply to:
barmecide n., : a murder committed in a barroom.
Or maybe the murder of the barmaid?
Parmecide the killing of certain cheeses.
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#69627
05/12/2002 6:25 PM
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And who among us would not like to own a magic lamp that when rubbed emitted a genie, who would give us whatever we asked for?
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#69628
05/12/2002 6:29 PM
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And who among us would not like to own a Magic Carpet?
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#69629
05/12/2002 6:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
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and would we know what to ask for? about 5 years ago, there was a horror flick about a genie-- who gave everyone what they asked for... sort of. like the Saki story about the monkeys paw, having our wished granted is not always the best thing. at what price?
the genies of the arabic stories where not benign fairy godmothers.. they were evil spirits.. who harm humans.
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#69630
05/12/2002 6:34 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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And I wonder how many children have had nightmares about the roc, a bird of prey so huge it could fly off with a large animal.
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#69631
05/12/2002 7:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Barmecides: a very interesting word, helen, that I recently had occasion to research. The Barmecides were apparently a group of people (I'm unsure whether it was an ethnic group or a social caste), and the phrase "barmecide feast" comes from the tale in the arabian nights, to which dr. bill provided a link. In that tale a rich barmecide purported to serve a sumptuous meal to a beggar. He set a fine table and talked volubly of the wonderful food and wine the two of them were eating and drinking together -- all of which was illusory, for in fact the plates and glasses were completely empty. I discovered this phrase years ago in reading the play Lysistrata, and specifically the scene in which a young wife teases her husband with unfulfilled promises of assignation. How's that for delicate phraseology?  In my translation, the gentlemen comments, "A veritable feast of Bamedcides," and the footnote solemnly informs the reader that such was "a feast at which no food is served." Other translators more pithily render the husband's remark as, "The only thing getting laid here is the table." For years, until I recently looked it up, I'd assumed that the term in my Lysistrata translation referred to a feast-custom among the ancient greeks at the time of that play. EDIT: You can find further information in the links noted in the post at http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=61061
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#69632
05/12/2002 7:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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An aside: that young wife in Lysistrata is named "Myrrhine", and according to one source found by google, her name is a take-off of the ancient greek word for vagina.
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#69634
05/12/2002 10:20 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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Here is a list of words of Arabic origin. Let's see if you can add any.
admiral, alchemy, alcohol, alcove, algebra, algorithm,
alkali, almanac, amalgam, aniline, apricot, arsenal,
arsenic, artichoke, assassin, aubergine, azure, borax,
cable, calibre, camphor, candy, cannabis, carafe, carat,
caraway, checkmate, cipher, coffee, cotton, crimson,
crocus, cumin, damask, elixir, gauze, gazelle, ghoul,
giraffe, guitar, gypsum, hashish, hazard, jar, jasmine,
lacquer, lemon, lilac, lime, lute, magazine, marzipan,
massage, mattress, muslin, myrrh, nadir, orange, safari,
saffron, samizdat, sash, sequin, serif, sesame, shackle,
sherbet, shrub, sofa, spinach, sugar, sultana, syrup, talc,
tamarind, tambourine, tariff, tarragon, zenith, zero
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#69635
05/12/2002 10:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
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To add to wwh's list:
How 'bout ottoman?
Mark Twain (our dear Sam Clemens) had the most amazing ottoman in his front hall. I saw it on a tour in Hartford where one of his houses was right across the lawn from Harriet Beecher Stowe's. Twain's ottoman looked like a big stuffed artichoke.
Barmecides regards,
WW
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#69636
05/12/2002 10:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
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Alcohol's all well and goood, but how about the elixir of love? And didn't we once discuss "a norange", coming from an Arabic form I now fergit? There must be loads more, from the centuries when Arabic scholars led the world in the sciences and mathematics and astronomy... And there was an interesting (if not *entirely convincing) article in TVR a while back - lemme see if I can find it.... http://www.vocabula.com/VRJUNE01salloum.htmedit: oopsie, sorry Bill - somehow I missed your listing of elixir on first reading! ok, I have just seen this (which being a googlehound you have probably already seen, but!)...
http://users.erols.com/zenithco/Introl2.html
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#69637
05/12/2002 10:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
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#69638
05/13/2002 1:06 AM
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Posts: 13,858
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Dear mav: those were a couple super extra good links. It will take me quite a while to digest the long one.
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#69639
05/13/2002 5:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
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Seems to me I read somewhere that there is a tribe of cannibals who consider sesamoids treats. Actually, I didn't read that anywhere, but it always sounds a little bit better than, "I just made that up."
TEd
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#69640
05/13/2002 5:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
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Ted, I think I read about that same group of cannibals. I read they also relish naviculars dipped into a concoction like chocolate sauce many from cahla-cahla beans.
I also made this up.
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#69641
05/13/2002 5:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
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Ulna a few of them were within a close radius, and many of them were in an ill humerus.
TEd
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#69642
05/13/2002 5:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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i encountered one in Tiscali that I don't remember seeing in previous lists:
"Effendi" a title of respect, used like our "sir".
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#69643
05/13/2002 11:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328
enthusiast
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From Uncle Bill's list: samizdat
I thought this one was Russian-- didn't Rudy Chelminski use it as a WAD a while back?
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#69644
05/14/2002 12:03 PM
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Are you sure it was same as dat?
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#69645
05/14/2002 1:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
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It *is Russian. The sam- means self and the -izdat is from some other word I don't remember what, but it's some Russian compound initialism or something like that.
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#69646
05/14/2002 1:12 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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Samizdat, a phenomenon which began after Khrushchev's secret speech at the Twentieth Communist
Party Congress in 1956, meant the private reproduction of books, documents, letters, essays, literary
works, translations, reprints from formerly published and until recent times forbidden publications, by
means of typing and retyping them for dissemination by private citizens. These publications were thus
completely free of censorship.
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#69647
05/14/2002 1:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
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Another word from Arabic: so long
Oh, OK, it's a phrase.
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#69648
05/14/2002 1:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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Dear Faldage: I think "Soo Long" was a variety of Chinese tea.
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#69649
05/14/2002 2:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
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Soo Long
Got you a speck on yo eyegoggles there Dr. Bill?
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#69650
05/14/2002 2:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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Dear Faldage: I think "Soo Long" was a variety of Chinese tea.
A dimly remembered lyric, which I can't find on google. Can anyone help? Titled "Teapot's a-Whistlin', Darling", I think.
Oolong, souchong -- so long!
You take a lump or too?
Catnip; sassafras; acapulco peppermint;
Let me tell it to you:
Teapot's a-whistling, darling,
But I'm feeling blue.
You went and got my steam up,
And now I'm sitting on the fire for you.
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#69651
05/14/2002 3:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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A word often encountered in literature: "hadji" honorific title of Moslem who has made pilgrimage to Mecca. Most meritous if performed three steps forward, one step back.
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#69652
05/14/2002 3:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
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...most meritous if performed three steps forward, one step bac
Did I miss something, Bill? What's being performed? Is this a dance about going to Mecca or something?
Head spinning,
Wordwhirled
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#69653
05/14/2002 3:55 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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Dear WW: As incontestible proof of their piety, the most devout pilgrims would (I have read) take three steps forward, one step back, and repeat until they got to Mecca. Extra virgins in Heaven perhaps.
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#69654
05/14/2002 4:08 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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Another one from tiscali: Hakeem, a Muslim physician.
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#69655
05/14/2002 4:12 PM
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Posts: 6,296
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3 steps forward; 1 step backwards
Amazing, wwh! Another instance of the literal making the figurative ludicrous.
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#69656
05/14/2002 4:19 PM
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Dear WW: You mock Muslim piety at your peril. You might have a "fatwa" declared against you.
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#69657
05/14/2002 4:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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From tiscali again: Halvah. a delicious mid-Eastern confection.
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#69658
05/14/2002 6:48 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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Same source. "Havildar" and Indian sergeant in British army in India. I had trouble getting confirmation that it is of Arabic origin. A source that appeared to confirm it gave 404.Ir remember seeing the word in one of Kiplings stories.
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#69659
05/14/2002 7:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
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#69660
05/14/2002 7:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
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Or not.
The way I heard it the clear account of how it could have made its way into English was that English soldiers picked it up from Malaysian salang which was from Arabic salaam. My understanding of the use of salaam is that it is used both as a greeting and as a farewell. Any or all of the above could be wrong, but that's the way I heard it.
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