#69575
05/13/2002 11:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear slithy: Were you living in Florida when you had harvested ice delivered? Even in MA where I lived, there were some winters when ice did not get thick enough to be worth cutting. I knew one handsome young man who delivered ice. I could readily believe he had more offers of payment in kind than he could accept. Alas that such a lusty livelihood should no longer be available.
I remember how wonderful it was when we got our first electric refrigerator. I didn't have to drink milk that had started to sour.
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#69576
05/13/2002 11:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320 |
No, Dr. Bill, this was in Maine. There was plenty of ice to be had there. I've sometimes wondered if, in those day, ice was shipped to places where it would not be available locally.
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#69577
05/14/2002 12:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<the guy up front had nothing to do with the heat>>
The guy in the back probably dropped out when the guy in the front hit the gas. That is, to give the internal combustion engine gas is equivalent to throwing coal in the firebox of a steam engine. Of course, it's just a guess. There is, incidentally, a wonderful sequence with chauffeur and driver together in the same cabin at the opening of Renoir's "La Bette Humaine."
As to lamplighters, Dr. Bill, the old (converted) gas lamps with attached iron wrungs still stand on the pedestrian crossing of the Brooklyn Bridge.
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#69579
05/14/2002 2:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320 |
From "The Highwayman," by Alfred Noyes:
And dark in the old inn-yard a stable-wicket creaked
Where Tim the ostler listened; his face was white and peaked;
His eyes were hollows of madness, his hair like mouldy hay,
But he loved the landlord's daughter,
The landlord's red-lipped daughter,
Dumb as a dog he listened . . .
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#69580
05/14/2002 3:56 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
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#69581
05/14/2002 4:18 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
Once again, Geoff, you clearly live in a different world than I do. Blacksmiths, and farriers, are still doing a very good trade in horsey parts of the world.
Around here, farriers, yes, but blacksmiths, no. Oh, sure, there are the ornamental iron shops such as Troy mentioned, but they hardly compare to the old fashioned smiths. Just TRY to get them to make you a set of ice tongs! However, there is a resurgence in glass blowers, some of which are not just artsy-fartsy types, but makers of high tech stuff.
As regards chauffers and stokers, it is common parlance in these parts to refer to the non-steering partner on a tandem bicycle as the stoker.
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#69582
05/14/2002 4:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
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#69583
05/14/2002 4:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
For centuries there was the practice of farmers coming into the towns, villages, and cities to empty urban outhouses of their nightsoil, as it was called, to use as fertilizer for their crops. As this free service wasn't always guaranteed, there were very ambitious men who, for a fee, would provide this service regularly to the aristocratic and wealthy and then turn around and sell it for a small fee as fertilizer to the farmers as well. Don't know what these gentlemen were called, though, except for smelly...or how 'bout septic couriers? 
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#69584
05/14/2002 7:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144 |
Another one which I imagine must be obsolete except in wine making regions is the 'cooper' - the man who made the barrels.
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#69586
05/14/2002 12:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
In my boyhood, junkies were guys who came around to buy scrap iron and other stuff. In those days scrap iron was badly needed to start off blast furnaces to turn ore into molten iron. Now the process has changed and scrap iron is not needed, so its value has dropped so low you have to pay somebody to take a junk car off your hands instead of getting a hundred bucks for it.
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#69587
05/14/2002 2:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Really? i am surprised to hear that.. some 10-15 years ago, there was a well reported theft in NYC-- someone stole a building (a cast iron building) for the scrap metal..
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#69588
05/14/2002 3:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
What did they call the little boy who pumped the bellows on those old tracker-action organs? That occupation is bound to be obsolete now with electric bellows...
Bellows regards,
WordWeimar
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#69589
05/14/2002 3:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200 |
Another one which I imagine must be obsolete except in wine making regions is the 'cooper' - the man who made the barrels.
The maker of arrows is the "fletcher", I believe.
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#69590
05/14/2002 3:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
the little boy who pumped the bellows on those old tracker-action organs?
Boy.
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#69591
05/14/2002 4:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
I have a special term for the person on the back of the tandem. CRAZY!
The person on the back has no control at all, and must have absolute faith in the ability of the driver, who controls the steering and the brakes. Some years ago I was on a group ride called Ride the Rockies (6 days totalling 361 miles across several very high mountain passes). On the last day I was descending Loveland Pass, exhilarating in the thrill of doing 56 mph (the fastest I've ever gotten my bike) when I heard a high-pitched scream behind me. Then I felt a whoosh as a tandem roared past me at a bit over 70. The scream I heard was from the stoker, a female, who repeated over and over as they rode out of sight, "I'm seeing a lawyer tomorrow. Tomorrow, do you understand me? TOMORROW!"
Apropos of nothing, I was stopped once for doing 32 mph in a 15 mph school zone. I begged the cop to give me a ticket and he refused. Said not giving me a ticket was punishment enough.
TEd
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#69592
05/14/2002 4:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
There are still quite a few coopers in NYC, I believe, where they make the huge water barrels that sit on top of a great many buildings in the city. They are reservoirs for firefighting, as I understand it, and are still required by city code. Of Troy may know more.
When I was a very young lad we had a neighbor in rural PA who was a tinsmith. His name was Mr. Dietzel, probably couldn't read or write, but he used very large tin cans to make household items. My brother still has a watering can that is a series of conic sections soldered together at odd angles. The mathematics of such connections are very complex, apparently, and this old guy did them by eye and by hand. This is truly a lost art.
TEd
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#69593
05/14/2002 4:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Whaler. In the early 1800's every New England seaport had whaling ships. It is hard to imagine anybody being willing to spend five years at sea, horribly hazardous, terrible tablefare, slow cycle of monotony alternating with terror. And a pittance at payoff. But many young men had not better choice.
My uncle told me a yarn about two brothers in Belfast, ME. They were digging potatoes when one of them threw down his fork and declared he would never dig another potato so long as he lived. He went down to the harbor and signed aboard a whaler. He was gone twenty years. When he got back to Belfast, he saw his brother digging potatoes in the same spot. His brother looked up, and said: "Where are you going, Jake?" Jake blew up. "You goddam Yankee! After twenty years you might have asked where I've been!"
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#69594
05/15/2002 2:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
In fact, it wasn't always a little boy. A large organ needed a full grown man to pump it, often the village idiot.
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#69595
05/15/2002 3:16 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
I have a copy (reprinted) of a famous mid-17th century schoolbook, J.A.Comenius' Orbis Sensualium Pictus, written in English and Latin (it was used to teach Latin). It has a lot about tradesmen. Some selections:
The plowman yoketh oxen to a plough and holdeth the plow-stilt in his left hand and the plow-staff in his right hand ... The reaper sheareth the ripe corn with a sickle, gathereth up the handfuls, and bindeth the sheaves. The thrasher thrasheth corn on the barn floor with a flayl, tosseth it in a winnowing-basket ... The mower maketh hay in a meadow, cutting down grass with a sithe and raketh it together with a rake, he maketh up cocks with a fork & carrieth it on cariages into the hay-barn.
The neat-heard calleth out the heards out of the beasthouses with a horn and driveth them to feed.
The fowler maketh a bed, spreadeth a bird-net, throweth bait upon it, and hiding himself in a hut he allureth birds by the chirping of bird-lures ...
Flax is tied to a distaff by the spinster, which with her left hand pulleth out the thred, and with her right hand turneth a wheel or a spindle upon which is a wharl.
The webster undoeth the clewes into warp, and wrappeth it about the beam, and as he sitteth in his loom, he treadeth upon the treddles with his feet.
Linnen-webs are bleached in the sun with water poured on them till they be white. Of them the sempster seweth shirts, hand-kirchers, bands and caps.
The box-maker ... maketh tables, boards, chests etc.
The turner, sitting over the treddle turneth with a throw, upon a turners bench, bowls, tops, puppets and such like turners work.
The roper twisteth cords of tow, or hemp (which he wrappeth about himself) by the turning of a wheel. Thus there are made, first cords, then ropes, and at last cables. The cordwainer cutteth great thongs, bridles, girdles, sword-belts, pouches, port-mantles etc. out of a beast-hide.
The printer hath copper letters in a great number put into boxes. The compositor taketh them out one by one and (according to the copy, which he hath fastened before him in a visorium) composeth words in a composing-stick, till a line be made, he putteth these in a galley, till a page be made, and these again in a form, and he locketh them up in iron chases, with coyns, lest they should drop out, and putteth them under the press. Then the pressman beateth it over wih printers-ink by means of balls, spreadeth upon it the papers, put in the frisket, which being put under the spindle, on the coffin, and pressed down with the bar he maketh to take impressions.
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#69596
05/15/2002 3:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
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#69597
05/15/2002 4:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
On the last day I was descending Loveland
Pass, exhilarating in the thrill of doing 56 mph (the fastest I've ever gotten my bike) when I heard a
high-pitched scream behind me. Then I felt a whoosh as a tandem roared past me at a bit over 70. The
scream I heard was from the stoker, a female, who repeated over and over as they rode out of sight, "I'm
seeing a lawyer tomorrow. Tomorrow, do you understand me? TOMORROW!"
Ah, the poor lass wasn't aware that a disc brake can be fitted to the rear hub and CONTROLLED BY THE STOKER! I don't have such a brake on mine, however. [evil grin e] And, of course, Dracula rode a tandem with Bram Stoker.
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#69598
05/15/2002 10:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200 |
From byb's long selection: Flax is tied to a distaff by the spinster
Is there something more here, connecting with the modern usage of those terms?
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#69599
05/15/2002 11:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Oooh, Byb, what a wonderful thing to share--thank you!!
the plow-stilt in his left hand and the plow-staff in his right hand 'Stilt' and 'staff'? Were these just the left and right handles of the plow, or did one or both have a specific function? My uncle's plow was very simple: just the frame, the turning fork, and handles; no brake, or anything like that.
Capital Kiwi, does any of this sound familiar to you?
The printer hath copper letters in a great number put into boxes. The compositor taketh them out one by one and (according to the copy, which he hath fastened before him in a visorium) composeth words in a composing-stick, till a line be made, he putteth these in a galley, till a page be made, and these again in a form, and he locketh them up in iron chases, with coyns, lest they should drop out, and putteth them under the press. Then the pressman beateth it over wih printers-ink by means of balls, spreadeth upon it the papers, put in the frisket, which being put under the spindle, on the coffin, and pressed down with the bar he maketh to take impressions.
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#69601
05/15/2002 3:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320 |
Among the "rude mechanicals" Shakespeare introduces in A Midsummer Night's Dream are: Quince, a carpenter; Snug, a joiner; Bottom, a weaver; Flute, a bellows-mender; Snout, a tinker; and Starveling, a tailor. Can't imagine making a living mending bellows. As I recall, the itinerant travelers in Ireland are also known as tinkers. M-W defines a joiner as a person who constructs articles by joining pieces of wood.
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#69602
05/15/2002 4:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear slithy: just as there are obsolete occupations, there are obsolete occupational injuries. There used to be a medical diagnosis "Weavers bottom" in which long hours of sitting on a hard bench caused pathologic changes in ligaments and tendons, scarring and calcification, ultmately iincapacitating.
There was an analooous "Coachman's knee" from many hours sitting on carriage seat bracing posterior of knee against the front part of the seat.
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#69603
05/15/2002 4:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
distaff
SYLLABICATION: dis·taff
PRONUNCIATION: dstf
NOUN: 1a. A staff that holds on its cleft end the unspun flax, wool, or tow from which thread is drawn in spinning by hand. b. An attachment for a spinning wheel that serves this purpose. 2. Work and concerns traditionally considered important to women. 3. Women considered as a group.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English distaf, from Old English distæf : dis-, bunch of flax + stæf, staff.
Flax is harder to spin than wool the distaff helps to manage the work. (it hold the tow (raw material)
Wool get rolled into little fluffy sausages.. but flax is is long fibers, more like hair than anything else.. and evenly pulling down strand to work them in, is difficult.
(the site that is linked to above also shows a niddy noddy.. i have one of those!)
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#69604
05/15/2002 5:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
Capital Kiwi, does any of this sound familiar to you?
... Then the pressman beateth it over wih printers-ink by means of balls,
Apparently, CapK left out a few details in last year's travelog.
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#69605
05/15/2002 5:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320 |
Dr. Bill: I'll just bet that maharajah, propped up on a pile of pillows with his tinkling martini, would be the least likely to develop Weaver's Bottom. Do you suppose that particular condition brought Shakespeare to call his character Bottom the Weaver? He does make an ass of himself as the play progresses.
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#69606
05/15/2002 6:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Slithy: you can count on it, that maharajah had a gorgeous collection of beaver bottoms.
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#69607
05/15/2002 6:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Actually, all of those terms, except one (coffin) were part of my previous life but two.
And I did all of those things as a humble apprentice mechanical. Then the Bottom fell out of the market with the introduction of not-so-humble non-apprentice computers ...
Printing presses up until the beginning of the 19th Century were unreliable beasts, generally using the screw principle to apply pressure to a block which impressed the type on to the paper. I suspect that block was the aforementioned coffin, but that's only a guess.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#69608
05/16/2002 8:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I found a long list of Colonial occupations, and picked out one: Ale Draper. =Ale house keeper.
What did "Draper" mean in this connection?
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#69609
05/16/2002 8:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Ale Draper. =Ale house keeper.
What did "Draper" mean in this connection?
House keeper.
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#69610
05/16/2002 8:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Faldage: please tell us how "draper" got to mean "housekeeper"
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#69611
05/17/2002 1:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
how "draper" got to mean "housekeeper"
From your original mention
Ale Draper. =Ale house keeper.
Dividing each side of the equation by Ale
Draper. =house keeper.
Dividing each side of the equation by .
Draper=house keeper
QED
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#69612
05/17/2002 1:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Excuse a tangent. When I read this ale draper term, all I could see was some drunk draped across a barrel of ale, three sheets to the wind--all three of 'em draped across the same barrel...that is, if ale came in barrels?
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#69613
05/17/2002 1:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Well, Jackie, I have no idea how it happens sometimes--rarely--but I was completely unaware of the fact that I'd duplicated the post till I just read the duplication today. It must have to do with my (and others') rapid-fire typing and clicking that somehow evades the "Sorry, you cannot post this post because it already exists" guy who lives inside of AWAD with his little banner on-the-ready to wave on your screen.
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#69614
05/18/2002 10:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Okay--can someone please tell me how it is possible to make a post that, as far as I can tell, is an exact duplicate of another? The one time I tried, and another time by accident, I got the "We cannot proceed--post already exists" page.
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