#56066
02/09/2002 10:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
I have recently received the following from a single party, whom I hope it will not be necessary to name:
January 29: Keiva, if you insist on being merely a stupid pompous asshole, why don't you just piss off as you said you were going to do? The reaction of most of us is likely to be "don't bang your ass on the door as you go.
February 9: I am not your buddy, nor am ever likely to be. I only retracted that previosu post because _______ requested me to do so. I spoke for at least seven people on this baord when I said what I did, and I stand by it.
[sic; transcript of related messages available on request]
I report factually; I do not comment. Tomorrow I shall similarly report dry statistics of how such remarks have affected the board.
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#56067
02/10/2002 11:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Is this a big problem, or a little one? Looking at the record:
We had slightly over 10,000 posts in the 120-day period starting last October 1. Some people posted more than others of course, and it broke down as follows (without naming names):
1320 posts
1140 posts; person driven off by hurtful comment
833 posts
794 posts; person driven of by hurtful comment
636 posts; 623; 575
406 posts; 379
375 posts; person driven off by hurtful comment
344 posts; 286; 264
238 posts; 220
208 posts by a sender of hurtful comment
196 posts; 170; 170 again
156 posts; person driven off by hurtful comment
152 posts; 113; 112
99 posts by a sender of hurtful comment
88 posts; 80;
54 posts; 35
23 posts by a sender of hurtful comment
20 posts by a sender of hurtful comment
Those driven into silence provided 24½% of our posts.
Those driving them away provided 3½% (not counting hurtfulness that the recipient was able to "shrug off").
I would not raise this matter if only a few posts were driven away. But when we lose people who accounted for a full quarter of our discussions, has the problem reached a degree where it is seriously damaging to our board -- with a few people drowning out substantial voices?
After opportunity for comment, I will suggest what I hope would be a solution painless for all.
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#56068
02/11/2002 6:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
addict
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addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618 |
I have to say this, though I can see that it may cause offence. I do hope it doesn't. It ties in with a post of mine in another thread, which basically asserts that this is a community of people, not a board of posted messages. The fact that such a small number of people contributed such a significant portion of the posts may very well be the underlying problem. Not only does this increase the chance of these posters causing offence (albeit inadvertently), mentioning a touchy subject, or making mistakes, it also may be seen as disruptive to the board community and somewhat overpowering, especially by old-timers. Hence, from my scientific mind:
[Hypothesis 1] It may be that the hurters view AWAD as merely a board and find the enjoyment and information gained from reading the messages reduced by the community-believeing hurtees. [/Hypothesis 1]
[Hypothesis 2] It may be that the hurters view AWAD as a community and are annoyed by the purely-message-posting hurtees who they believe have little regard for the traditions and friendships of the board. [/Hypothesis 2]
[Hypothesis 3] A combination of 1 and 2 may be more accurate. [/Hypothesis 3]
[Hypothesis 4] I may be full of s**t. [/Hypothesis 4]
I really don't care which, if any, are true. What I do care about is learning about words and language in a fun and stimulating environment. That's what AWAD was for when I first arrived, and when it stops being that, I shall leave. Please don't let it stop.
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#56069
02/11/2002 4:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
...full quarter of our discussions...
Within your opinion of the definition of 'discussion', of course.
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#56070
02/11/2002 10:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
addict
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addict
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477 |
What I do care about is learning about words and language in a fun and stimulating environment. That's what AWAD was for when I first arrived, and when it stops being that, I shall leave. Please don't let it stop.
Wot he said...
[soapbox]And now for what I say: I have resisted entering into these discussions up until now, but I think it might (IMHO) be useful for me to say this.
My first day lurking on this board I encountered the numerous posts (in numerous threads) about all the negativity that was going on here. It almost scared me away. I'm glad to say I persisted, and have managed to find the parts of this board that I really enjoy  . What I do wish though is that these topics would just stop coming up. Let's stop over-analysing, and criticising and whatever, and just get on with the purpose of this Board, which is - I believe - to enjoy words. In order to enjoy those words, we must be prepared to interact with other people who may or may not agree with us. It takes all kinds to make a world.
JazzOctopus has come up with an idea to find new members. It's a great idea, but what happens if their first encounters are like mine, and they aren't quite so persistent. We'll be scaring people away rather than attracting them.
I know there are people out there who may disagree with some (or all) of what I've said, but please let's not get into yet another war of words. This is meant to be a positive post, and I'm writing this with the very best of intentions. I love what I'm experiencing and learning here (and regularly have to try and contain my fits of laughter so that I don't have to try and explain it all to my work colleagues ).
Can we end all this?
Climbing
.........down
.............off
.................my
...................[soapbox]
and looking forward to lots more words !
Hev
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#56071
02/13/2002 12:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Maxim: Don’t point to a problem unless you’re prepared to suggest a solution.
We have a problem of people being hurt by comments felt as rude. In the spirit of that maxim, may I suggest a credo which, if enough of us adopt and follow it, will go far to help us deal with the hurts that are sure to occur from time to time?
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1. I don’t claim to be perfect. When I err and am rude, I’ll sincerely apologize.
2. I don’t expect others to perfect. When I get an apology like that, I’ll accept it graciously.
3. When someone else is hurt by rudeness without apology, it is my responsibility, to the board, to post to assuage him or her. I'll do that (unless others have already done it and I would be merely cumulative). I won't leave them feeling alone and abandoned.
4.. Rudeness includes abusive language, personal attacks or gratuitous stepping on someone else’s sensibilities.
Don't let it fester: skip any excuses; skip long analysis that "something else was really meant". Just apologize, and go on. And don’t play the game of "pushing the envelope" to see just how much "borderline rudeness" you can get away with.
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#56072
02/13/2002 12:51 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
In general (and without regard to quibbles over the details), who else feels this might be a viable way to proceed?
I'm signing up for that credo, provided others do.
Keiva: yes
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#56073
02/13/2002 1:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688 |
Maxim: Don’t point to a problem unless you’re prepared to suggest a solution.
I agree there is a problem. And I agree with the solution you have provided.
Angel: yes
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#56074
02/13/2002 1:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Well, mercy, I think most of us have been doing these things, and I plan to continue...but if I intended something other than what was interpreted, I'm going to try to get that across.
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#56075
02/13/2002 1:46 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
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#56076
02/13/2002 2:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,074 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,074 Likes: 2 |
"We murder to dissect..." said William Wordsworth.
But yes, I agree with the credo completely.
"The milk is spilt; we have to clean it up..." said Chaim Ginnott.
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#56077
02/13/2002 4:51 AM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636 |
I have always felt this way.
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#56078
02/13/2002 1:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 107
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 107 |
Somebody's mother never taught them that if you don't have something nice to say - don't bother saying anything. They also have never had any psycology classes which teach "Only an insecure person will say negative things about others to boost up their own egos. The main objective to remember is if you don't like what is being discussed - go to another posting. There are literally hundreds of discussions to view - past & present. I can't imagine too many folks have read them all.
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#56079
02/13/2002 2:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Let's all try to make it a kinder gentler board with the emphasis on learning about language and wordsl
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#56080
02/13/2002 2:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
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#56081
02/13/2002 2:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
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#56082
02/13/2002 6:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
3. When someone else is hurt by rudeness without apology, it is my responsibility, to the board, to post to assuage him or her. I'll do that (unless others have already done it and I would be merely cumulative). I won't leave them feeling alone and abandoned.No, it's not your responsibility to do anything about it. Why would you even think so? I'ts nobody's responsibility. Did someone dub thee Sir Head "sausauage"? Noble effort whenever you attempt to do so, however, and kudos to you when you are successful! 4.. Rudeness includes abusive language, personal attacks or gratuitous stepping on someone else’s sensibilities. And the arrogance it takes to annoint\(sp?) oneself with the ability to tell me which definition of the word "rude" I should follow. Don't let it fester: skip any excuses; skip long analysis Follow your own advice on this one, please that "something else was really meant". Just apologize, and go on. And don’t play the game of "pushing the envelope" (1)see above (2) you're not only the *definition police, but now yer also the behavior police! What's next? Spelling? to see just how much "borderline rudeness" you can get away with. What are we, only slightly pregnant? As much as I agree with the sentiment and the "borderline intent" of your words, you are up to your *"old tricks" again... that would be "saying one thing and doing another" as your words are being very rude to my sensibilities. You are hurting my feelings, sir. What it sounds like is the *inevitable prescriptivist -vs- "any one else who isn't". Any other thoughts on the matter? (That question would be pointed at anyone but you and I, sir.) Now I've just made my opinion known in an arena where I know there are a lot of people out there (hello all you new "lurkers") who just don't think it's worth the time or effort to say anything, but to that, I say "the squeaky wheel needs the grease". If I've hurt your feelings, I apologize. Move on!
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#56083
02/13/2002 8:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Apologies, musick. Granting that you and I have different views of this, I do regret having stated mine in a way that your feelings. Rest assured that that happened not from any lack of wish to be polite, but only from my poor ability to implement that wish.
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#56084
02/16/2002 9:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Especially the part about when someone has been treated rudely without apology, yeah, it's a good thing to come to the rescue there. No sense in letting people sit around thinking that rudeness is categorically acceptable.
I agree, for what it's worth.
Thinking on bright shining things,
WW
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