#51922
01/08/2002 3:18 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
THE MOST AUDACIOUS EXULTATION IN THE IMPERATIVE EVER SPOKEN BY MORTAL MAN.
AWAKE! THOU GREAT STAR. WHAT WOULD THY GLORY BE IF THOU HAD NOT THOSE UPON WHOM THOU
SHINIETH!
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And perhaps the most definitively human: Rage, Rage, against the dying of the light.
Dylan Thomas
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#51923
01/08/2002 1:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Anastrophe aside, maverick  , thank you so much for the double meaning of "may"! That had never occurred to me. I am counting the days in this snowy land until it's time to go a-Maying.
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#51924
01/08/2002 8:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
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maverick , thank you so much for the double meaning of "may"May I add more may meanings? May Day, the international distress call, is really the French "M'aidez," or "Help me!" (Hey, that fits the original thread!) Then there's the Maytag repairman. When somebody shouts "Maytag" in German, he goes to a festival; when he does it in French, he goes to work!  Geoff the washed up
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#51925
01/08/2002 9:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Let me call you Sweetheart!
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#51926
01/08/2002 9:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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My curiosity aroused, I've been searching through my print anthologies in an attempt to find the earliest recorded use of ye in any form. There is, of course, that long period of early New England dialect where ye was used most lavishly as recorded in (among other works) Melville's Moby Dick and O'Neill's play Desire Under the Elms. Good colloquial examples are available in both these works. (I'm surprised wow and Dr. Bill haven't chimed-in here). Also, there are many examples of ye's use as "the" in titles like "Ye Olde Tin Shoppe," etc. So far I have these early examples (and, of course, the famous town crier's call, "Hear ye! Hear ye!").
an excerpt from the poem WISHES, TO HIS (SUPPOSED) MISTRESS
by Richard Crashaw (1613-1649)
"Meet you her, my wishes,
Bespeak her to my blisses,
And be ye called my absent kisses."
An earlier example comes from the 1st verse of an anonymous song/ballad attributed to the ancient roving bards (circa the year 1000?...pre-dating Chaucer, anyway):
TOM O'BEDLAM'S SONG
"From the hag and hungry goblin
That into rags would rend ye,
And the spirit that stands by the naked man
In the book of moons, defend ye,
That of your five sound senses
You never be forsaken,
Nor wander from yourselves with Tom,
Abroad to beg your bacon."
There is also the Irish ballad, "Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye."
But, by far, the most curious and intriguing specimen comes from ol' Rabbie Burns (1759-1796),
SONG: GREEN GROW THE RASHES
5th Verse
"For you sae douce, ye sneer at this;
Ye're nought but senseless asses, O;
The wisest man the warl' e'er saw,
He dearly loved the lasses, O."
warl': world
Note Burns uses ye in the same sentence as you, and then again in contraction form!
Robert Herrick's is, of course, another of the earliest examples.
If anyone can figure out the pattern to all these interchangeable-seeming YEs and YOUs
please ring in!
So far no YEs in any form in Chaucer, Skelton, or Spenser...but that could be due to translation from olde and middle English.
If anyone wants or thinks we should take this to a new thread for further discussion, I'd be glad to paste it over.
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#51927
01/09/2002 8:20 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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The only thing that comes to mind that even remotely resembles "ye" for anything other than "you" or "your" is "yea" as in "Yea, though I walk in the Valley of the Shadow of Death..." but that's altogether different.
I wonder whether the confusion may have errupted over "ye" being the same as "thee"--and then consequently confused with "ye" for "the"? Just a theory here.
WW
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#51928
01/09/2002 6:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#51929
01/09/2002 7:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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"ye" being the same as "thee"
Yeeahbutİ ye is nominative; thee is dative/accusative.
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#51930
01/09/2002 9:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yeeahbutİ ye is nominative; thee is dative/accusative.
Soooooo. Ye may get you elected. Thee may get you imprisoned for a certain length of time?
BTW, ye must also be vocative. Hear ye!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#51931
01/11/2002 5:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Enough of these serious techicalities. Back to good old silliness!
"Hail, Freedonia!" sang the Marx Brothers, spooneristically.
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#51932
01/11/2002 9:35 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Walk on by! [falling tear e-]
Try to see it my way. [Beatles]
Try to see it your way. [Beatles again]
Just walk away, Renee... [drawing a blank on group e-]
Meet me on South Street, oh, yeah, hurry on down! [ditto to above e-]
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#51933
01/11/2002 12:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
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Posts: 688 |
Just walk away, Renee... [drawing a blank on group e-]
The Cowsils
Go Rest High On That Mountain I love Vince Gill's voice!
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#51934
01/11/2002 12:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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"Go Tell It On The Mountain!"
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#51935
01/13/2002 6:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 157
member
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member
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Posts: 157 |
"Hark! The Herald Angels Sing!"
(I often hear this abbreviated as "Hark the Herald." It's convenient, but grammatically, it bugs me...)
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#51936
01/16/2002 8:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
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California Dreamin' (The Mamas and the Papas)
Listen to the Music (The Doobie Brothers)
I Honestly Love You (Olivia Newton John)
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#51937
01/17/2002 1:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
addict
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addict
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Posts: 618 |
I Honestly Love You (Peter Allen)
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#51938
01/17/2002 5:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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"I Just Want to Celebrate!" (Rare Earth) "It's A Beautiful Mornin'!"... (The Young Rascals) "Dance to the Music!" (Sly & the Family Stone) "Love the One You're With!" (Stephen Stills) "You Made Me So Very Happy!" (Blood, Sweat, & Tears) "Make Me Smile!" (Chicago) "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall!" (Bob Dylan) whoops! where'd that come that from?
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#51939
01/17/2002 9:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Summer Breeze (Seals and Croft)
Ventura Highway (America)
Listen to the Lions (Van Morrison)
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#51940
01/17/2002 9:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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1. "exault" seems to be trade name of a security firm.
2. Faldage said "ye" is "thee", but didn't make it clear that they are pronounced the same. Which I confess I learned more recently than I like to admit.
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#51941
01/17/2002 10:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Just a little observation:
There's a lot on this thread that sure ain't imperative.
Me.
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#51942
01/17/2002 10:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#51943
01/17/2002 10:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#51944
01/18/2002 5:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Faldage said "ye" is "thee", but didn't make it clear that they are pronounced the same. Which I confess I learned more recently than I like to admit.
A) I said nothing of the sort. What I said was:
Yeeahbutİ ye is nominative; thee is dative/accusative.
2) I said nothing of the sort. I said ye is the but that was a whole nother ye.
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